Current Affairs The "another stabbing in London" thread

[peteblue]

I'm laughing at you. Again.

I’m glad for you, because most sensible people are reading your posts.....

 

[tsubaki]

Where was the guys car. He said he could see the attacker, so that’s either through trees, over a wall or through a fence. He could see him. Even driving a car into a fence would have provided distraction, bought time, but he did nothing, absolutely nothing other than lock the car door......

Any chance of answering the question I asked of you, what would you have done.....

Pete - I do not know where Mackey's car was (because that bit hasnt yet been released), but given that he said that Palmer and Masood passed his car it is probably where the ambulance closest to the gates is (ie: on the bend where the concrete barrier is) - which would make using the car as a weapon both implausible and fundamentally stupid.

As to what I would have done - if I knew that armed units were there, I'd have kept myself away from the attacker and tried to keep other people away from him as well.

 

[orchard]

I’m glad for you, because most sensible people are reading your posts.....

Here's a hint for you, drink less, comprehend more, virtue signal less.

 

[peteblue]

Here's a hint for you, drink less, comprehend more, virtue signal less.

Hers a hint for you, grow up, think more, and try to understand.....Or here’s another tack, why not actually put forward a view or an argument.....go on, have a go, you might enjoy it.....

 

[PhilM]

My point about anecdotes was more about things you keep citing as reasons why Mackey should be criticized, none of which were anything like this.

Take the one about Bettison for example - how many times did he confront a terrorist who had just stabbed a colleague of his, when there were units that were far better trained to deal with him seconds away? If the answer is zero, then that point is irrelevant isn't it?

I personally don't believe it is right, at the time at least, to distinguish between a terrorist and any other violent criminal whose purpose is to cause harm or death.

A man with a knife who has injured/killed people and attempting to do more harm, is a person who is trying to kill someone; they are a threat to be dealt with.

It could be a terrorist bent on destruction, a drunken man who has already stabbed officers or an individual who has committed a serious Sec18 - it's your job.

Obviously the overall response will be different, which I fully agree with, but in the there and then (on the scene) I don't feel there should be differences.

Therefore, the main driver for why I criticise is that as an officer you are paid to get in between the good people and the bad people. You are the shield.

You take the money and you know the deal: the day might come when it is life or death. Aside from that, while the maniac is occupied fighting with a policeman...

...then he isn’t able to harm others so readily and time gathers for further reinforcements to arrive as the maniac tires. A police officer knows this - or they should.

The public look for to the police to protect them and not to cower away. I’d forgive a member of the public for doing the same but not him, a servant of the crown.

 

[peteblue]

Pete - I do not know where Mackey's car was (because that bit hasnt yet been released), but given that he said that Palmer and Masood passed his car it is probably where the ambulance closest to the gates is (ie: on the bend where the concrete barrier is) - which would make using the car as a weapon both implausible and fundamentally stupid.

As to what I would have done - if I knew that armed units were there, I'd have kept myself away from the attacker and tried to keep other people away from him as well.

And how would you have kept other people away, locked in your car......

 

[peteblue]

I personally don't believe it is right, at the time at least, to distinguish between a terrorist and any other violent criminal whose purpose is to cause harm or death.

A man with a knife who has injured/killed people and attempting to do more harm, is a person who is trying to kill someone; they are a threat to be dealt with.

It could be a terrorist bent on destruction, a drunken man who has already stabbed officers or an individual who has committed a serious Sec18 - it's your job.

Obviously the overall response will be different, which I fully understand appreciate, but in the there and then (on the scene) I don't feel there should be differences.

Therefore, the main driver for why I criticise is that as an officer you are paid to get in between the good people and the bad people. You are the shield.

You take the money and you know the deal: the day might come when it is life or death. Aside from that, while the maniac is occupied fighting with a policeman...

...then he isn’t able to harm others so readily and time gathers for further reinforcements to arrive as the maniac tires. A police officer knows this - or they should.

The public look for to the police to protect them and not to cower away. I’d forgive a member of the public for doing the same but not him, a servant of the crown.

Absolutely spot on, and why he should be sacked.....

 

[orchard]

Hers a hint for you, grow up, think more, and try to understand.....Or here’s another tack, why not actually put forward a view or an argument.....go on, have a go, you might enjoy it.....

IF by that you mean rush to a judgement based on assumptions that support my preconceived notions - like you yourself do, then no thanks.
BTW, you could actually read what I did write above if you're not too busy fighting windmills.

 

[tsubaki]

I personally don't believe it is right, at the time at least, to distinguish between a terrorist and any other violent criminal whose purpose is to cause harm or death.

A man with a knife who has injured/killed people and attempting to do more harm, is a person who is trying to kill someone; they are a threat to be dealt with.

It could be a terrorist bent on destruction, a drunken man who has already stabbed officers or an individual who has committed a serious Sec18 - it's your job.

Obviously the overall response will be different, which I fully understand appreciate, but in the there and then (on the scene) I don't feel there should be differences.

Therefore, the main driver for why I criticise is that as an officer you are paid to get in between the good people and the bad people. You are the shield.

You take the money and you know the deal: the day might come when it is life or death. Aside from that, while the maniac is occupied fighting with a policeman...

...then he isn’t able to harm others so readily and time gathers for further reinforcements to arrive as the maniac tires. A police officer knows this - or they should.

The public look for to the police to protect them and not to cower away. I’d forgive a member of the public for doing the same but not him, a servant of the crown.

Again though, that is not what you are demanding that Mackey should have done. If Mackey was by himself, with a terrorist attacking members of the public and there was no other option than to intervene then yes, he should have put himself in harms way. That is what happened at London Bridge, but not what happened here.

Masood had already stabbed PC Palmer and was chasing other cops, determined to kill more of them. By confronting him, unarmed and unprotected, all you are demanding that Mackey should have done is to give him a free go at killing another one - and worse, when it was utterly unnecessary. (edit) Look at the photos above. That distance from the gate to Masood (who is the body closest to the gate) represents how much time Mackey had to decide what to do.

 

[tsubaki]

And how would you have kept other people away, locked in your car......

Do you even read responses to your posts?

 

[peteblue]

Again though, that is not what you are demanding that Mackey should have done. If Mackey was by himself, with a terrorist attacking members of the public and there was no other option than to intervene then yes, he should have put himself in harms way. That is what happened at London Bridge, but not what happened here.

Masood had already stabbed PC Palmer and was chasing other cops, determined to kill more of them. By confronting him, unarmed and unprotected, all you are demanding that Mackey should have done is to give him a free go at killing another one - and worse, when it was utterly unnecessary. (edit) Look at the photos above. That distance from the gate to Masood (who is the body closest to the gate) represents how much time Mackey had to decide what to do.

He had time to think and decide to lock the doors of his car.......

 

[peteblue]

Do you even read responses to your posts?

I read your response, that’s why I asked the question, so locked safely in your car how would you have kept others away and safe...it was you that mentioned it.....

 

[tsubaki]

He had time to think and decide to lock the doors of his car.......

That is about all the time that existed from him seeing PC Palmer get stabbed to Masood getting shot, yes.

 

[tsubaki]

I read your response, that’s why I asked the question, so locked safely in your car how would you have kept others away and safe...it was you that mentioned it.....

No, it wasn't. You asked me what I would do, I said what I would do. At no point in my post did I say "I would stay in the car".

Again, please actually read what is posted.

 

[peteblue]

That is about all the time that existed from him seeing PC Palmer get stabbed to Masood getting shot, yes.

He should get a medal really.......and a promotion......