Current Affairs The "another stabbing in London" thread

[peteblue]

Takes big balls for people to label someone a coward because they didn't put their own life at risk in a specific situation, very easy to cast judgement when you're not the one in that position regardless of if it's their paid duty or whatever. You must have a lot of confidence in your own bravery when faced with extremely difficulty situations. Good to know we have some real genuine internet heroes on here though.

That’s just a crap cheap shot. Internet heroes indeed. I’m pretty sure you would be one, but do you know what, some on here probably would have done a bit more than lock themselves in their car.......and shame upon those defending this coward.......

 

[peteblue]

... because people were already rendering first aid? Mackey and the evidence presented to both inquests said there were other officers in the Yard who gave (with that MP) first aid to him.

So it was best to stay locked in the car......out of harms way.....you do realise that this guy is supposed to LEAD his officers......

 

[longers]

That’s just a crap cheap shot. Internet heroes indeed. I’m pretty sure you would be one, but do you know what, some on here probably would have done a bit more than lock themselves in their car.......and shame upon those defending this coward.......

Yes im sure you would have been first in there to save the day Pete, keep telling everyone how great your moral code is.

 

[tsubaki]

That’s just a crap cheap shot. Internet heroes indeed. I’m pretty sure you would be one, but do you know what, some on here probably would have done a bit more than lock themselves in their car.......and shame upon those defending this coward.......

Pete has it ever occured to you that people on this board might actually have some knowledge of or experience of these events that is beyond what you've read in the Mail and on your Facebook page?

Seeing you make your usual points on this issue from a position of utter ignorance is, frankly, sickening and I hope you one day realise how you come across.

 

[PhilM]

Takes big balls for people to label someone a coward because they didn't put their own life at risk in a specific situation, very easy to cast judgement when you're not the one in that position regardless of if it's their paid duty or whatever. You must have a lot of confidence in your own bravery when faced with extremely difficulty situations. Good to know we have some real genuine internet heroes on here though.

No, I'm talking from personal experience.

 

[peteblue]

Yes im sure you would have been first in there to save the day Pete, keep telling everyone how great your moral code is.

Do not try and paint me with your own inherent low standards, amazingly many would do just as I say, though you wouldn’t even recognise that sort of behaviour.....

 

[peteblue]

Pete has it ever occured to you that people on this board might actually have some knowledge of or experience of these events that is beyond what you've read in the Mail and on your Facebook page?

Seeing you make your usual points on this issue from a position of utter ignorance is, frankly, sickening and I hope you one day realise how you come across.

In this case I really don’t care. You and others are trying to put this liberal let’s do everything by the book nonsense across while not recognising pure cowardice when it hits you in the face. Your clever remarks to justify your position do you a disservice......

 

[PhilM]

Please, we all understand how it was back in the day but you are citing a load of examples that were nothing like as serious as this and what is worse is that you are not saying what Mackey could have done to have changed any of it. At what point in the history of the Job have they actually expected people to be killed just to show that they have done something? That is what you are asking of him.

No I'm not. I am expecting him to try to intervene, possibly try to lead him away and if need be act by attacking him because that's his duty. Then stay and lead.

You keep saying he couldn't do anything but that's there we disagree; I feel he could have - or tried to - no matter how little, whereas you feel he was right not to.

Many years ago (late 70s) an officer motor cyclist rode away from a man being beaten, to death as it turned out, by bouncers outside a nightclub in St.Helens.

His response was that he wasn't armed and there were carriers on the way, so was best to go. He was charged, prosecuted and imprisoned for those actions.

And I find it insulting that you say things weren't as serious. Yes they may not have been a direct terror attack, but there were situations of extreme personal risk.

Or how about racing from a nick to search bins with possible explosives in after a warning from the PIRA. Unfortunately, they rang the wrong Samaritans...

so bins in Liverpool outside McDonalds were searched. That was the Warrington bombings. No protection, no thought for your own life, just doing the job!

 

[peteblue]

This is a very easy statement to make and a very difficult one to actually put into practice.

If he had no armour, no PPE and the PC was already being stabbed then there really is nothing he could have done in that situation to alter anything (PC Palmer was stabbed inside the Palace Yard - so with no way to get the car up to speed to take Masood out); it isn't as if he was outside St Thomas' with the opportunity to stop Masood before he started his attack. What is more when you know there are going to be armed cops getting on scene and likely to shoot then you do not get in the way. Acting stupidly is worse than not acting.

And acting like a coward is even worse. It’s always someone else’s job isn’t it. Well sometimes it’s not, it’s yours...and he failed, spectacularly.......

 

[tsubaki]

In this case I really don’t care. You and others are trying to put this liberal let’s do everything by the book nonsense across while not recognising pure cowardice when it hits you in the face. Your clever remarks to justify your position do you a disservice......

Who has used the "lets do everything by the book" argument? All that has been pointed out is that Mackey had no means to stop Masood, no means to prevent Palmer being stabbed to death (indeed he had already been stabbed), and no means to protect himself or anyone else.

All he could have done is challenged him whilst unarmed and unprotected, and if you think that was a sensible course of action to take when there is armed backup actually in the same complex and who turned up and dealt with Masood within seconds anyway, then I am not sure what argument you would understand.

 

[peteblue]

No I'm not. I am expecting him to try to intervene, possibly try to lead him away and if need be act by attacking him because that's his duty. Then stay and lead.

You keep saying he couldn't do anything but that's there we disagree; I feel he could have - or tried to - no matter how little, whereas you feel he was right not to.

Many years ago (late 70s) an officer motor cyclist rode away from a man being beaten, to death as it turned out, by bouncers outside a nightclub in St.Helens.

His response was that he wasn't armed and there were carriers on the way, so was best to go. He was charged, prosecuted and imprisoned for those actions.

And I’d like to see the same for this guy, or at least lose his golden pension......

 

[peteblue]

Who has used the "lets do everything by the book" argument? All that has been pointed out is that Mackey had no means to stop Masood, no means to prevent Palmer being stabbed to death (indeed he had already been stabbed), and no means to protect himself or anyone else.

All he could have done is challenged him whilst unarmed and unprotected, and if you think that was a sensible course of action to take when there is armed backup actually in the same complex and who turned up and dealt with Masood within seconds anyway, then I am not sure what argument you would understand.

Behave. Trying to defend this guy is like Hullefc defending the Russians, it may sound clever and distracting but it’s a disgrace.....

 

[peteblue]

Who has used the "lets do everything by the book" argument? All that has been pointed out is that Mackey had no means to stop Masood, no means to prevent Palmer being stabbed to death (indeed he had already been stabbed), and no means to protect himself or anyone else.

All he could have done is challenged him whilst unarmed and unprotected, and if you think that was a sensible course of action to take when there is armed backup actually in the same complex and who turned up and dealt with Masood within seconds anyway, then I am not sure what argument you would understand.

He LOCKED HIMSELF INSIDE THE CAR........

 

[tsubaki]

No I'm not. I am expecting him to try to intervene, possibly try to lead him away and if need be act by attacking him because that's his duty. Then stay and lead.

You keep saying he couldn't do anything but that's there we disagree; I feel he could have - or tried to - no matter how little, whereas you feel he was right not to.

Many years ago (late 70s) an officer motor cyclist rode away from a man being beaten, to death as it turned out, by bouncers outside a nightclub in St.Helens.

His response was that he wasn't armed and there were carriers on the way, so was best to go. He was charged, prosecuted and imprisoned for those actions.

Look - please understand before posting yet more of these anecdotes that there were other police officers in Palace Yard. Masood was trying to chase them after stabbing PC Palmer but armed units came and shot him.

This was not a case of Mackey leaving PC Palmer alone to die, or driving off and leaving the scene whilst the attacker was on the loose. To compare him to someone who left a member of the public to die is both very inaccurate and very unfair.

You are basically attacking Mackey for not putting his life at risk needlessly, which to me is wrong.

 

[peteblue]

Look - please understand before posting yet more of these anecdotes that there were other police officers in Palace Yard. Masood was trying to chase them after stabbing PC Palmer but armed units came and shot him.

This was not a case of Mackey leaving PC Palmer alone to die, or driving off and leaving the scene whilst the attacker was on the loose. To compare him to someone who left a member of the public to die is both very inaccurate and very unfair.

You are basically attacking Mackey for not putting his life at risk needlessly, which to me is wrong.

And you are disgracefully ignoring his sworn duty to protect the public, never mind protecting one of his own officers. If you cannot see his patent cowardice, you never will......