Current Affairs The " another shooting in America " thread

[Garrick]

Here's a thought mate - those two cops with Alton Sterling, if they were horrific hate crime committers, why didn't they shoot him on sight instead of tazing him and attempting a take down?

Or why didn't the cop at the traffic shop just execute the guy immediately when getting to the window if he was a nu-KKK member?

Sorry, the race card here is played because it's easier for Americans to justify it as such instead of actually acknowledging the real problem. It's like ignoring a massive elephant in the room in order to look intently at a bit of fluff on the floor.

Look, mate.

I'd be all for abolishing the second amendment and seriously curtailing gun ownership in this country, so keep preaching to the choir.

But one black guy was just shot killed by police while reaching for license and registration in his car.

And another black guy was shot while he was pinned down.

This is just in the past 48 hours.

Please, don't ever "race card" me. People calling out others for "race cards" are also trying to justify something while without acknowledging another real problem.

 

[SerenityNigh]

It's a tricky one because these things involve split second decisions that can have fatal consequences. I think the first thing they could do is bring in a set of rules of engagement and adapt their tactics and procedures around that. The army has something called a card alpha which means a person has to be an imminent threat to somebody's life in order for you to take lethal action

That's the issue for me: the Sterling death could have been prevented if the officers properly identified him as not the assault suspect; the Castille death could have been prevented with clearer instruction from the officer. Maybe this is optimism mixed with hindsight, but neither of these situations appeared to need to be escalated.

They say in flying--the regulations are written in blood. Let's hope this holds true for policing, and that the victims' blood writes some of the rules.

 

[SerenityNigh]

Look, mate.

I'd be all for abolishing the second amendment and seriously curtailing gun ownership in this country, so keep preaching to the choir.

But one black guy was just shot killed by police while reaching for license and registration in his car.

And another black guy was shot while he was pinned down.

This is just in the past 48 hours.

Please, don't ever "race card" me. People calling out others for "race cards" are also trying to justify something while without acknowledging another real problem.

I'll be glad to defend the "race card" angle because I have vested interest in this, but the idea of calling out a Wisconsinite for pulling the race card is top.

 

[Garrick]

I'll be glad to defend the "race card" angle because I have vested interest in this, but the idea of calling out a Wisconsinite for pulling the race card is top.

lol

See that bright green border next to the only turquoise neighborhood in the city (right underneath where it says Shorewood)?

Yeah, I lived there, a block away from the line.

And yes, Milwaukee police have in fact killed an unarmed black man in the past year. Homeless guy in a park. Fourteen shots from the officer's weapon.

 

[Walken]

Laughing at the "These cops once did a bad thing, this means ALL cops are rogue killing machines"

I bet you call them pigs, but when something bad happens, you'd be the first to call them.

FTM

 

[bignev23]

They get away with it cos white people are willing to back them up and make lame excuses like he was resisting arrest. If everyone condemned them it would happen a lot less frequently but while they feel that it is their right to shoot first and ask questions later it will continue and the middle class whites will continue to back them up. I've no idea why the blacks don't join up with the Mexicans and Asians and revolt as they are still treated like 3rd class citizens, maybe they will once America has finished flooding theirs and every other country to the brim with illegal assault weapons.

 

[Azzurri]

"This isn't a race thing, don't play the race card".


https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/dec/31/the-counted-police-killings-2015-young-black-men

Overall in 2015, black people were killed at twice the rate of white, Hispanic and native Americans. About 25% of the African Americans killed were unarmed, compared with 17% of white people. This disparity has narrowed since the database was first published on 1 June, at which point black people killed were found to be twice as likely to not have a weapon.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nati...c7a404-b3c5-11e5-a76a-0b5145e8679a_story.html

And although black men represent 6 percent of the U.S. population, they made up nearly 40 percent of those who were killed while unarmed.

http://killedbypolice.net

• [*]30% of victims were black
  
  
  [*]13% of US population is black
  
  
  [*]97% of deaths were not followed by any charges against police officers

 

[Steve0]

Deserves? Not really. Only a very few people deserve an early death.

But he put himself in a situation where he made his own death more likely.

People seem unable to accept the obvious - if he didn't resist arrest, he doesn't die.

That's an absurd stance to take. Let's say you're speeding and a cop comes up behind you,flashing his lights but you don't hear him so you keep speeding. He decides you're a threat so he shoots you dead.

Imagine if someone said, 'well the cop was a bit naughty but if he wasn't speeding he wouldn't have been killed'.

You'd think that guy was mental. Well you wouldn't because you'd be a corpse but you get my point.

Youve also changed your tune a bit. When you didn't expect a second video you said if he was unarmed then it was an execution. Now you're going on about him resisting arrest.

 

[Steve0]

Two things. Going to be controversial due to the nature of the video, but oh well.

1 - He shouldn't have resisted arrest, full stop.

2 - Did he have a weapon? If so, this is the issue with guns in the USA. If the police felt they didn't have the situation under control because he was struggling, spotted a gun and were worried about him making a move for it, then it for me justifies the action. If I were the police and spot a gun on someone resisting arrest, then I'd be compelled to nullify the threat too.

It obviously looks like an execution, but you need to ask yourself what you'd do in that situation in a country where everyone and their toddler has access to guns.

If he was unarmed though, it's an execution, case closed.

I agree.

 

[tsubaki]

TBH the issue over race does probably obscure some severe issues with how the Police in the US actually operate (both in terms of tactics and what they are being asked to do).

Put single officers in the situation where they are armed, have a reasonable expectation that the other person will be armed, backup is some time away and asking them to enforce the law pretty much guarantees that there will be quite a lot of occasions where they go into things with their gun out, or with their hand on it. If things go wrong / they think they are going wrong, they have nowhere else to go but the gun.

Making single patrol illegal would not stop shootings (as the Sterling case shows, though even there they at least tried something less lethal first), but it would probably considerably reduce the number of fatalities of everyone - black, white and even cop.

 

[Whistlin' Dixie]

Me either mate.

I still don't take the actions of a few to label them all.

I do.

They're all corrupt...Just the level of corruption varies massively. That applies worldwide AFAIC.

There isn't one hasn't lied in court, from the most trivial of prosecutions, to capital offences (Or formerly capital, here in Blighty)

Thank crivvens our plod ain't armed (In the main) or we'd be seeing the same. They've tasered blind old men & claimed they thought his white stick was a samurai sword ffs!

That's when they don't keep the taser's ultra-high voltage flowing through someone for 30 seconds or more, or when they don't cs gas drunks for having the temerity to answer them back, rightfully question their authority etc...

Oh, and there isn't one puts their uniform on, and doesn't think it grants them authority to act beyond their remit.

They all have the Judge Dredd 'I am the law' attitude about them, as soon as that uniform goes on.

 

[bignev23]

Looked like the two podgy Goons egos couldn't handle the shame of the big fella not crapping himself cos they had guns and badges so they went OTT and rushed him and threw him to the floor but then realised he could have still got up and made them look like the fools they are, because once they realised they weren't fully in control of the situation they got panicky and shot him enough times to put an elephant to sleep.

People like these, who's only skill is to shoot people who don't comply with their orders should never be near a gun and a badge IMO but it seems this is a trait that Americas Police force is more than willing to accept along with a serious superiority complex.

 

[GwladysPhil]

Out of curiosity - have you got any graphs that represent the skin colour ratio to crimes committed?

 

[Tubey]

That's an absurd stance to take. Let's say you're speeding and a cop comes up behind you,flashing his lights but you don't hear him so you keep speeding. He decides you're a threat so he shoots you dead.

Imagine if someone said, 'well the cop was a bit naughty but if he wasn't speeding he wouldn't have been killed'.

You'd think that guy was mental. Well you wouldn't because you'd be a corpse but you get my point.

Youve also changed your tune a bit. When you didn't expect a second video you said if he was unarmed then it was an execution. Now you're going on about him resisting arrest.

I haven't changed my tune one bit. He was armed, gun in the right pocket, and resisting arrest.

If he was unarmed, it was an execution. It's the exact same stance.

Also, your scenario doesn't make sense - you'd be shooting at a vehicle in motion.

 

[Tubey]

Look, mate.

I'd be all for abolishing the second amendment and seriously curtailing gun ownership in this country, so keep preaching to the choir.

But one black guy was just shot killed by police while reaching for license and registration in his car.

And another black guy was shot while he was pinned down.

This is just in the past 48 hours.

Please, don't ever "race card" me. People calling out others for "race cards" are also trying to justify something while without acknowledging another real problem.

You've conveniently missed a few facts out there.

He was reaching for his licence, after admitting having a concealed weapon.

He was shot while pinned down, whilst resisting arrest and having a gun on his person.

You ignore those facts because they don't fit with your view. And that's the problem - you've settled on a race aspect to this and ignore anything to the contrary.