Current Affairs The " another shooting in America " thread

[PhilM]

I do.

They're all corrupt...Just the level of corruption varies massively. That applies worldwide AFAIC.

There isn't one hasn't lied in court, from the most trivial of prosecutions, to capital offences (Or formerly capital, here in Blighty)

Thank crivvens our plod ain't armed (In the main) or we'd be seeing the same. They've tasered blind old men & claimed they thought his white stick was a samurai sword ffs!

That's when they don't keep the taser's ultra-high voltage flowing through someone for 30 seconds or more, or when they don't cs gas drunks for having the temerity to answer them back, rightfully question their authority etc...

Oh, and there isn't one puts their uniform on, and doesn't think it grants them authority to act beyond their remit.

They all have the Judge Dredd 'I am the law' attitude about them, as soon as that uniform goes on.

Not to be obtuse, and I'll admit that in most threads I respect what you say, but you're obvious hatred for the police is staggeringly unnerving.

Can I ask where this hugely biased, stereotypical and pretty unwavering view comes from? As I can't see how you can justify tarring all.

We're talking about shootings and how racial prejudice may be a factor, yet you're expressing you're own clear and unwavering prejudice.

Some cops are bad. Some may occasionally cross the line. Some may even have faults. But to expect all to be utterly perfect - is that sensible?

Is it fair to label ALL because of the actions of a few?

 

[SerenityNigh]

Out of curiosity - have you got any graphs that represent the skin colour ratio to crimes committed?

Crimes committed and crimes prosecuted are not equal, but there is plenty of data showing that black men in the US are prosecuted far more aggressively than whites.

Introduction

Caddo (LA) Parish Study on Race, Homicides, and Prosecutions, 1988-2008

This study examines the racial characteristics of homicides occurring in Louisiana’s Caddo Parish (the Shreveport area) during the 21 years from 1988 through 2008, and then compares them to the racial characteristics of all murder cases prosecuted during the same period. Are these prosecutions a statistically random, race-neutral subset of the homicides that occurred? What we find is that there is a negligible (less than one-in-ten-thousand) chance of obtaining these data if the hypothesis – that prosecuted cases are a racially random sample drawn from the homicide group – were true.

http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=1743712

*That's for death penalty convictions, not just simple criminal convictions

There's plenty to read on this issue; Slate has an easy piece worth reading (link below). I'll just post some of the images for all the TL/DR people.

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_...justice_system_eight_charts_illustrating.html

 

[Steve0]

I haven't changed my tune one bit. He was armed, gun in the right pocket, and resisting arrest.

If he was unarmed, it was an execution. It's the exact same stance.

Also, your scenario doesn't make sense - you'd be shooting at a vehicle in motion.

Exactly, not a man lying on the floor with two cops standing over him. I know which one is more threatening.

 

[neil999]

Out of curiosity - have you got any graphs that represent the skin colour ratio to crimes committed?

What for?

 

[DanEFC92]

I haven't changed my tune one bit. He was armed, gun in the right pocket, and resisting arrest.

If he was unarmed, it was an execution. It's the exact same stance.

Also, your scenario doesn't make sense - you'd be shooting at a vehicle in motion.

You keep saying resisting arrest but as it is a vague term, I don't know exactly what you mean. He was tazed, he was tackled, he was slammed against the car bonnet and he was pinned by 2 police officers to the ground. Does it mean fidgeting while having your face pressed against the asphalt? Or shaking from being tazed? Aside from that you're taking the police officer's accounts that he was reaching for his gun under the aforementioned pretence as fact, when in both videos it's unclear.

 

[bignev23]

Unless a person draws a weapon and could be perceived to be going to use the weapon I don't really ever think that using lethal force is a) necessary or b) justified.

 

[Whistlin' Dixie]

Not to be obtuse, and I'll admit that in most threads I respect what you say, but you're obvious hatred for the police is staggeringly unnerving.

Can I ask where this hugely biased, stereotypical and pretty unwavering view comes from? As I can't see how you can justify tarring all.

We're talking about shootings and how racial prejudice may be a factor, yet you're expressing you're own clear and unwavering prejudice.

Some cops are bad. Some may occasionally cross the line. Some may even have faults. But to expect all to be utterly perfect - is that sensible?

Is it fair to label ALL because of the actions of a few?

The same 'unwavering prejudice' the plod have shown me & mine.

Except I've never assaulted a copper, nor arrested one for nothing and made up charges when I reached the station. Or then lied in court to secure a petty conviction.

Fortunately I haven't been shot dead by them, neither.

'Occasionally cross the line'...You mean like every day, at least once a day? The rules apply to all, not just joe public.

So, as long as they hold sacred their (Very much mistaken) belief that they are the law, or the law should afford them certain special protection - above and beyond your rights and mine; just because they wear the uniform....

As long as they continually peddle the utter bollox that they they're putting their lives on the line each & every day...Every one of them, not just one or two...

As long as they continue to close ranks & blame everyone bar themselves for their unlawful actions...Or worse, allow & facilitate the *splutters* 'few bad apples' to commit crimes like the ones we're witnessing by not blowing the whistle on the other times they've 'crossed the line'.

And getting treated extremely leniently in the rare events when they actually are prosecuted, then they'll be on the end of my disdain.

Oh, of course, everyone knows a copper who's 'alright'. All's that means they're alright with you. There's always some poor sod on the wrong end of their shizz; and (exponentially) more often than not for the most spurious of reasons, too.

More (GMP) 'shenanigans'

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-36739859

 

[magicjuan]

Those are both the acts of trigger happy plod. Seems the default position is to shoot first don't answer questions later.

The sound of a child crying in the Castile video just adds to the absurdity of it all.

 

[PhilM]

I appreciate that you're own personal circumstances are concerning @Whistlin' Dixie, but it's still damming all because of individual actions.

What's the difference between tarnishing all police with the same brush, and saying all fireman are slackers? Or all soldiers are blood-thirsty?

All male teachers are paedophiles? Let's go a little further and say all black men are drug dealers? Or how about all travellers are thieves?

They're ludicrous, partisan and vile; personally I see no difference. I'm sorry how you were treated, but blame the individual(s) and not all.

I'm not saying the police are perfect either and the situation isn't ideal, however I see no good in slandering all as it just continues a vicious cycle.

 

[Whistlin' Dixie]

I appreciate that you're own personal circumstances are concerning @Whistlin' Dixie, but it's still damming all because of individual actions.

What's the difference between tarnishing all police with the same brush, and saying all fireman are slackers? Or all soldiers are blood-thirsty?

All male teachers are paedophiles? Let's go a little further and say all black men are drug dealers? Or how about all travellers are thieves?

They're ludicrous, partisan and vile; personally I see no difference. I'm sorry how you were treated, but blame the individual(s) and not all.

I'm not saying the police are perfect either and the situation isn't ideal, however I see no good in slandering all as it just continues a vicious cycle.

Fair enough.

I wouldn't think for one minute though, that the plod aren't entirely free of prejudice...Any of them. Believe me, their prejudice is inherent, please don't try to convince yourself otherwise

If you're not plod, or plod's family...then you'll do.

I don't expect everyone to be squeaky clean; but I expect the police to work entirely within the boundaries of the law they purport to uphold. That means every single one of them, and in every single instance - without exception.

It goes far FAR deeper than 'A few bad apples'. I know of nothing, and have no evidence to the contrary to convince me it isn't the whole barrel.

 

[Darth Vader]

I haven't changed my tune one bit. He was armed, gun in the right pocket, and resisting arrest.

If he was unarmed, it was an execution. It's the exact same stance.

Also, your scenario doesn't make sense - you'd be shooting at a vehicle in motion.

If you where slammed then pinned to the floor by two police officers, Would you remain perfectly still?

 

[Darth Vader]

You've conveniently missed a few facts out there.

He was reaching for his licence, after admitting having a concealed weapon.

He was shot while pinned down, whilst resisting arrest and having a gun on his person.

You ignore those facts because they don't fit with your view. And that's the problem - you've settled on a race aspect to this and ignore anything to the contrary.

He had two people sat on him and his arms pinned to his side, How is he reaching the gun?

 

[Darth Vader]

When they throw him to the floor why not get him on his front and cuff him

 

[jal123]

The same 'unwavering prejudice' the plod have shown me & mine.

Except I've never assaulted a copper, nor arrested one for nothing and made up charges when I reached the station. Or then lied in court to secure a petty conviction.

Fortunately I haven't been shot dead by them, neither.

'Occasionally cross the line'...You mean like every day, at least once a day? The rules apply to all, not just joe public.

So, as long as they hold sacred their (Very much mistaken) belief that they are the law, or the law should afford them certain special protection - above and beyond your rights and mine; just because they wear the uniform....

As long as they continually peddle the utter bollox that they they're putting their lives on the line each & every day...Every one of them, not just one or two...

As long as they continue to close ranks & blame everyone bar themselves for their unlawful actions...Or worse, allow & facilitate the *splutters* 'few bad apples' to commit crimes like the ones we're witnessing by not blowing the whistle on the other times they've 'crossed the line'.

And getting treated extremely leniently in the rare events when they actually are prosecuted, then they'll be on the end of my disdain.

Oh, of course, everyone knows a copper who's 'alright'. All's that means they're alright with you. There's always some poor sod on the wrong end of their shizz; and (exponentially) more often than not for the most spurious of reasons, too.

More (GMP) 'shenanigans'

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-36739859

Whatever you do never get hit by a police car. I did, after they were on the wrong side of the road, speeding with lights on but no siren and *I* got put in cuffs and breathalysed.
The traffic copper who turned up said 'I'll breathalyse him later don't worry' when I asked if he was going to breathalyse the driver of the bizzy car.

Oh aye, because time is in no way a factor on a breathalyser.

Mine was zero, by the way, still have no idea what his was but helpfully got a letter off the plod saying they wouldn't take any further action on me after about 6 months.


Bent, every single one of them whether deliberate or not, is bent towards their side and themselves.

 

[Whistlin' Dixie]

Whatever you do never get hit by a police car. I did, after they were on the wrong side of the road, speeding with lights on but no siren and *I* got put in cuffs and breathalysed.
The traffic copper who turned up said 'I'll breathalyse him later don't worry' when I asked if he was going to breathalyse the driver of the bizzy car.

Oh aye, because time is in no way a factor on a breathalyser.

Mine was zero, by the way, still have no idea what his was but helpfully got a letter off the plod saying they wouldn't take any further action on me after about 6 months.


Bent, every single one of them whether deliberate or not, is bent towards their side and themselves.

They killed my mate when he edged out onto a main road and was hit by a plod car the investigators estimated to have been travelling at between 48-58 mph (IIRC) in a 30. No blues 'n' twos.

Plod wasn't breathylysed, but Hoppy's corpse was tested (Clean). It broke his dad's heart...

Of course, it was 'accidental'. They tried to blame it on a luton van being parked close to the junction...Except it was at legally parked distance.