Current Affairs The " another shooting in America " thread

[riddick]

It doesn't matter what your interpretation or opinion is but it's in the constitution, and that's the only thing that matters. To most Americans, the constitution is only second to the Bible, in terms of importance and values.

Of which a majority of them have never read either the bible or the constitution.

 

[Ruairi77]

Don't think I ever argued for making more guns and arming more people but keep making stuff up.

Yes so once everyone else stops having guns they will just stop won't they, they are criminals and psychopaths!

Banning things has proven to work hasn't it, just look at prohibition or the war on drugs! You are living in fantasy land, I want to see less gun crime, I want to see tighter restrictions but I am also living in the real world where banning guns in America simply will not happen.

banning guns does work and did work in the 90s in the US.

 

[riddick]

There have been a lot of interconnected events getting us to this place. For centuries

I’m not optimistic about our ability to change without another civil war.

When 40% of the population believes alternate reality, the damage has already been done.

I’m sure this isn’t a popular take. But I do not have high hopes for our future

There can't BE another civil war because this isn't state vs state, it's rural vs urban. How does someone "win" that?

 

[BlueTX]

I’ll just post this again, a quote from literally inside the Jefferson Memorial: Times change. If they didn’t, Black people would still be 3/5ths of a person, and women couldn’t vote

Southeast Portico:


"I am not an advocate for frequent changes in laws and constitutions, but laws and institutions must go hand in hand with the progress of the human mind. As that becomes more developed, more enlightened, as new discoveries are made, new truths discovered and manners and opinions change, with the change of circumstances, institutions must advance also to keep pace with the times. We might as well require a man to wear still the coat which fitted him when a boy as a civilized society to remain ever under the regimen of their barbarous ancestors."

-Excerpted from a letter to Samuel Kercheval, July 12, 1816

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To amplify the point, I'll add the immediately preceding words from Mr. Jefferson:

"Some men look at constitutions with sanctimonious reverence, and deem them like the arc of the covenant, too sacred to be touched. They ascribe to the men of the preceding age a wisdom more than human, and suppose what they did to be beyond amendment. I knew that age well; I belonged to it, and labored with it. It deserved well of its country. It was very like the present, but without the experience of the present; and forty years of experience in government is worth a century of book-reading; and this they would say themselves, were they to rise from the dead."

 

[LinekersLegs]

 

[DuuuncanHadaPigeon]

Oh my god. Someone in another country has a gun illegally, therefore we should allow everyone in America to own assault rifles. What an utterly absurd leap of logic.

I'm actually starting to think you are actually a parody account just pretending to be pro guns, because you are making some really stupid arguments in favour of them.

You are completely missing my point and the context I made it in.

@Noisy noise annoys says we should just ban guns as that would just get rid of all gun crime

My counter point is, in a country with 400 million guns, banning them isn't going to be suddenly stop gun crime. Criminals break the law, that's what they do. Guns being illegal will not stop them using guns, in the same way drugs being illegal doesn't stop drug traffickers. Guns are a force equalizer. It is perfectly legal to own a gun in the UK, we didn't just outright ban them did we

To answer your other point, I don't own a gun and have no desire to, I am not American. I have said in this thread many times that I want to see more restrictions and access to guns in the US, something similar to what Canada does would be ideal. I am approaching the argument from a point of, it is extremely unlikely that America will ever outright ban guns, so what is a solution that both sides could get behind and something like a Canada approach could work. It is not as black and white as you are making out.

 

[verreauxi]

 

[maccavennie]

No words

Absolutely grim that

How anyone can make a case for wanting to make guns so accessible need their heads testing.

 

[DuuuncanHadaPigeon]

banning guns does work and did work in the 90s in the US.

Straight from Wikipedia in reference to the Federal Assault Weapons Ban;

Studies have shown the ban had little effect on overall criminal activity, firearm homicides, and the lethality of gun crimes. There is tentative evidence that the frequency of mass shootings may have slightly decreased while the ban was in effect

A 2014 study found no impacts on homicide rates with an assault weapon ban.[29] A 2014 book published by Oxford University Press noted that "There is no compelling evidence that [the ban] saved lives."

The Columbine massacre happened during this period too, using weapons that were illegal.

 

[Walken]

You ever been to America, mate?

Not the cities

Everywhere else

Outside of more 'progressive' places I've worked out of jacksonville, tacoma and florida. I get what you are saying and it wasn't a statement based around any expectation, more just the absurdity of it.

 

[Walken]

Have cross referenced your data with Wikipedia?

 

[Deleted member 48881]

@Noisy noise annoys says we should just ban guns as that would just get rid of all gun crime

Except that he didn't

 

[WA Toffee]

It doesn't matter what your interpretation or opinion is but it's in the constitution, and that's the only thing that matters. To most Americans, the constitution is only second to the Bible, in terms of importance and values.

And yet the constitution has been amended 27 times already.

 

[LinekersLegs]

Straight from Wikipedia in reference to the Federal Assault Weapons Ban;

Studies have shown the ban had little effect on overall criminal activity, firearm homicides, and the lethality of gun crimes. There is tentative evidence that the frequency of mass shootings may have slightly decreased while the ban was in effect

A 2014 study found no impacts on homicide rates with an assault weapon ban.[29] A 2014 book published by Oxford University Press noted that "There is no compelling evidence that [the ban] saved lives."

The Columbine massacre happened during this period too, using weapons that were illegal.

The Assault Weapons ban was certainly imperfect with lots of holes and its effectiveness has been debated.

However more recent research seems fairly clear that, at least for mass shootings, a reduction in the availability of assault weapons would reduce body counts.

Mass Shootings in America | Everytown Research & Policy

Twelve Years of Mass Shootings in the United States An Everytown for Gun Safety Support Fund Analysis Last updated: June 4, 2021 In the years between 2009 and 2020, the …

everytownresearch.org

Assault weapons are generally high-powered, semiautomatic firearms designed to fire rounds at a greater velocity than most other firearms, and, when combined with high-capacity magazines, they enable a shooter to fire a devastating number of rounds over a short period. In the 12 years from 2009 to 2020, there were at least 30 mass shootings (16 percent of those with known weapon data) that involved the use of an assault weapon, resulting in 347 deaths and 719 injuries. In other words, mass shootings that involved an assault weapon accounted for 25 percent of all mass shootings deaths and 76 percent of injuries. While not used in the majority of mass shootings, when they were, it left six times as many people shot per incident than when there was no assault weapon.15

 

[TN Toffee]

Look at every military insurgent the US has tried to destroy, they are all still kicking about with nothing but AK47s, pickup trucks and IEDs. Seems to be working alright for them.

It is also not about overthrowing the government but preventing a tyrannical government as I understand it.

That’s what I’ve heard my whole life. However, when the rubber met the road on that theory last January, it sure seemed like most of the 2nd Amendment crowd sided with the tyrants.