Current Affairs Syria...

[arminisgod]

I think everybody deep down doesn't want to get involved in the middle east. it's a disaster zone and has been for centuries. Far too much tribal conflict to ever solve.

But how can anybody believe people should get away with using chemical weapons? They are Illegal and horrific. The west simply HAVE to react purely on a humanitarian level. And at some point we have to put Putin and Russia in its place. Far too long we have let them get away with anything they want.

 

[Jib in lad]

 

[magicjuan]

I think everybody deep down doesn't want to get involved in the middle east. it's a disaster zone and has been for centuries. Far too much tribal conflict to ever solve.

But how can anybody believe people should get away with using chemical weapons? They are Illegal and horrific. The west simply HAVE to react purely on a humanitarian level. And at some point we have to put Putin and Russia in its place. Far too long we have let them get away with anything they want.

Similarly the 'others' could say the same things about 'the West'.

 

[dholliday]

The political backdrop to this 'war' is so confusing. Why can't it be like the early 40's, at least back then everyone knew who the 'goodies' and the 'baddies' were

Who were the goodies & baddies, Lee?

Who bombed Dresden to hell for no discernible reason, and who murdered 300,000 innocent civilians with a couple of heavy bombs?

This isn't Independence Day or Starship Troopers where bad alien vermin invade and we have to save the Earth. War is something VIP's decide and normal people act out. On the way there'll be the most horrific crimes against humanity inflicted. While I'd agree the Holocaust was the worst one of all, there were plenty others from the other team which were pretty horrific.

the most obvious answer is usually the correct one.

Except people disagree what the "most obvious answer" is, so in the end there is no such thing.

 

[NilSatisOptimum]

Put them in their place, they have been on notice, 2 days already, pretty sure they have been dispersing essential assets in the time they have been given. I see no moral difference in chemical death or incinerated death; both abhorrent and only comfortable armchair warmongers debate the difference. This will only serve to recruit the next generation of western hating jihads, make some of us feel safe for 5 years or so until the next wave come knocking...

 

[tsubaki]

Who were the goodies & baddies, Lee?

Who bombed Dresden to hell for no discernible reason, and who murdered 300,000 innocent civilians with a couple of heavy bombs?

This isn't Independence Day or Starship Troopers where bad alien vermin invade and we have to save the Earth. War is something VIP's decide and normal people act out. On the way there'll be the most horrific crimes against humanity inflicted. While I'd agree the Holocaust was the worst one of all, there were plenty others from the other team which were pretty horrific.

We didn't bomb Dresden to hell "for no discernable reason", there was a war on and it was against the literal poster boys for evil. When the criticism of the raid reached Harris' attention he came out with what should have been the final word on the subject:

I ... assume that the view under consideration is something like this: no doubt in the past we were justified in attacking German cities. But to do so was always repugnant and now that the Germans are beaten anyway we can properly abstain from proceeding with these attacks. This is a doctrine to which I could never subscribe. Attacks on cities like any other act of war are intolerable unless they are strategically justified. But they are strategically justified in so far as they tend to shorten the war and preserve the lives of Allied soldiers. To my mind we have absolutely no right to give them up unless it is certain that they will not have this effect. I do not personally regard the whole of the remaining cities of Germany as worth the bones of one British Grenadier.

The feeling, such as there is, over Dresden, could be easily explained by any psychiatrist. It is connected with German bands and Dresden shepherdesses. Actually Dresden was a mass of munitions works, an intact government centre, and a key transportation point to the East. It is now none of these things.

What was done to Dresden (or what was done to Hamburg, Tokyo or Pforzheim) is what war actually is - horrifying, brutal, unfair, random in many ways, rather than the Disneyfied version of war that we have all been fed on these past thirty years, where people press buttons, the bad guys go pop and then everyone on our side goes home safe and sound.

If we are going to inflict that horror on others, and risk being it brought on ourselves, then we should be absolutely sure it is justified and we should be prepared to do whatever is necessary. If we aren't then there is no point.

 

[Tubey]

Except people disagree what the "most obvious answer" is, so in the end there is no such thing.

So you don't know what Occam's Razor is then?

 

[Lee Smith]

Who were the goodies & baddies, Lee?

Who bombed Dresden to hell for no discernible reason, and who murdered 300,000 innocent civilians with a couple of heavy bombs?

This isn't Independence Day or Starship Troopers where bad alien vermin invade and we have to save the Earth. War is something VIP's decide and normal people act out. On the way there'll be the most horrific crimes against humanity inflicted. While I'd agree the Holocaust was the worst one of all, there were plenty others from the other team which were pretty horrific.




Except people disagree what the "most obvious answer" is, so in the end there is no such thing.

I'm no historian, but I'd hazard a guess that most people would say that the one's who started it were the baddies, the ones that ended it were the goodies

 

[magicjuan]

I'm no historian, but I'd hazard a guess that most people would say that the one's who started it were the baddies, the ones that ended it were the goodies

And the ones who funded it and profited from it, what does history write about them?

 

[Jib in lad]

 

[flibbyflob]

#NotInMyNameTheresaMay

Sadly governments do go ahead when they shouldn't. Blair was a classic case, at least this time we aren't being blatantly lied to just to go ahead. I don't want us to get involved here but think it is inevitable, just hope parliament votes on it and it isn't just done.

 

[MrPerfectNot]

A primer on all the players in Syria:

 

[peteblue]

And the ones who funded it and profited from it, what does history write about them?

They’re Americans......

 

[magicjuan]

They’re Americans......

By and large

 

[peteblue]

We didn't bomb Dresden to hell "for no discernable reason", there was a war on and it was against the literal poster boys for evil. When the criticism of the raid reached Harris' attention he came out with what should have been the final word on the subject:



What was done to Dresden (or what was done to Hamburg, Tokyo or Pforzheim) is what war actually is - horrifying, brutal, unfair, random in many ways, rather than the Disneyfied version of war that we have all been fed on these past thirty years, where people press buttons, the bad guys go pop and then everyone on our side goes home safe and sound.

If we are going to inflict that horror on others, and risk being it brought on ourselves, then we should be absolutely sure it is justified and we should be prepared to do whatever is necessary. If we aren't then there is no point.

Indeed, Bomber Command had 55,000 men killed in action, about 45% of its total strength. These guys didn’t give up their lives for no discernible reason, they knew that their work would save the lives of others and help bring the war to a close. A most underrated group of young men improperly abused by those who owe their very existence to them........