Strikers

[royalblue66]

The point is we have the worse strike force in this league, you can argue and say that not true as you came back with stats but we had the worse strike force in this league LAST SEASON.

Yes, we have had the worst strike force for several seasons,a bit of a purple patch here and there but overall absolutely
Abysmal in fact under Moyes Everton didn't do strikers.

 

[Michael Tsui]

With respect mate, that's the biggest load of balls I've ever read on here. Strikers play in a specialist position and to suggest that they only score because they happen to be closest to the goal is a bit daft.

With full respect I will not stop reminding everyone that the age of the poacher is now gone, with Michael Owen retiring rather anonymously as the nail of the coffin.

Forwards advance territory (hence hold-up play), create chances(hence layoffs) and nullify the opponent backs, midfielders support the forward and the Forward so an angle will eventually open up, and backs rush up to create overloads. It is how percentage football is played nowadays...

 

[toffeejack]

Long has scored 19 goals in 70 appearances for WBA, and 73 from 273 in his career; Odemwingie has 31 in 90 at WBA and 86 from 297 in total. So in a goals-to-games ratio Jelavic, with 19 from 59 for us and 94 from 216 in total, is streets ahead. granted, Long and Odemwingie are better than Anichebe by some margin, but given their ages I'd only take Long as a replacement for Anichebe - Odemwingie is basically finished.



But I wouldn't base it solely on one season. I've already made that clear by pointing out Jelavic was awesome in the half-season after he first arrived: 11 goals in 16 games had everyone drooling like Pavlov's dog, and it's not as if they were all simply luck



Remy: 6 in 14 for QPR.... 9 in 35 if you include his Marseille stats. 67 from 203 in his career.
Cisse: 4 in the whole season. BBC website link to his career stats isn"t working.
Johnson: Presuming you mean our old chap, he didn't score at all this season. 146 in 455 for the career though.
Le Fondre: 14 from 37 this season. 144 from 360 career - you may have a point with this guy. Maybe.
Pogrebnyak: 8 in 32 this season (identical to Anichebe); 64 in 191 career.

So all those, only Le Fondre has better than a 1 in 3 ratio.... Jelavic's career total of 94 in 216 is better than 1 in 3 as well. Everyone you've listed would be a step up from Anichebe at best.



Lambert: 15 from 38; 219 from 581 - marginally better than Jelavic, but he takes pens and free kicks - Jela doesn't.
Rordriguez: 9 from 37; 54 from 183 - better than Anichebe, arguably, but nowhere near Jelavic.

Fletcher: 11 from 31 this year; 99 from 324 in total - slightly better this year, but overall not as good as Jelavic.
Graham: 7 from 36 (split between Swansea and Sunderland); 107 from 337 for the career. Marginally better than Jelavic this year (arguably), but not even close overall.

Can I be bothered to pull up the stats for Crouch, Jones and Walters. A brief glimpse shows you that Walters had a better season than Jela this year, but overall he's no better than Anichebe. Jelavic over the career eclipses all three of them.



Agree re West Ham and Swansea. With a better midfield providing more chances, Jelavic and Anichebe would score more. 15 from one and 10 from the other is easily achievable. The stats show that Jelavic had the off year from hell this year by his own standards and even after that he still averages a goal every 2.33 games. EVERY alternative you've mentioned averages out at a goal every three games AT BEST, with the exception of Le Fondre who averages out at a goal every 2.5 games.

Bent's ratio of 178 in 427 is interesting. Averages out at 2.39... but he's 30 already and this season he only got 6 from 23. If the price was right he might be worth considering, but he's really only a stopgap isn't he? I can't see him having more than two years left in the tank.

yeah but you're only looking at goals here. There is more to a striker than goals. For example, shane long has a brilliant all round game. Most of these strikers are internationals and a lot of them starters, jelavic has a had a brief flirt with starting for croatia and anichebe not so much

 

[Sphinn]

As far as which of our young strikers should be given more playing time, the U21 stats has only one winner:

Conor McAleny - 10 goals in 11(1) matches

He was injured part of the season as well, yet when he returned he kept scoring. In comparison, 2nd and 3rd on the U21 goalscorer list was Vellios with 5 goals in 21 matches and Duffy with 5 goals in 23 matches. Now, I don't think Vellios is ****, but McAleny scored twice as many goals in half the amount of matches. There is no record of assists and such on the OS but when it comes to a striker I don't care. Strikers need to be fed, not feed others. That's why we have midfielders, wingers and excellent wing-backs like Bainesy and Coleman.

 

[Juanito de La Boca]

This.

Martinez will no doubt have watched the tape on Jelavic to establish what has gone wrong this season. If he's got the balls to tell Bill he'll get us into the CL, then solving Jelavic will presumably be simple. If it hasn't worked by January, well that's a different matter.

FWIW I think Anichebe has proved this year that he's most effective coming off the bench and having the odd start here and there, rather than starting every week. I could see him getting 12 - 15 goals a season in that role.

Buying a genuine RM/RW will cost less, and have a bigger impact: we won't be so reliant on Mirallas, Coleman may get the protection he needs, we could start to phase Pienaar out (by shifting Mirallas over to the left, which he seems to prefer) AND we'd have a bit of balance in midfield, leading to better service to our strikers.

Or we can spend nearly £20m on Negredo or similar, and get the same results as before.

My thoughts exactly! I think someone like Sinclair or McManaman might make a difference, Moses even bigger if Miralles is pushed up top as a false number 9.

 

[Jags..class]

As far as which of our young strikers should be given more playing time, the U21 stats has only one winner:

Conor McAleny - 10 goals in 11(1) matches

He was injured part of the season as well, yet when he returned he kept scoring. In comparison, 2nd and 3rd on the U21 goalscorer list was Vellios with 5 goals in 21 matches and Duffy with 5 goals in 23 matches. Now, I don't think Vellios is ****, but McAleny scored twice as many goals in half the amount of matches. There is no record of assists and such on the OS but when it comes to a striker I don't care. Strikers need to be fed, not feed others. That's why we have midfielders, wingers and excellent wing-backs like Bainesy and Coleman.

Yeah, he around 20 now as well, don't know if he good enough for the step up.

 

[Tree13]

The point is we have the worse strike force in this league, you can argue and say that not true as you came back with stats but we had the worse strike force in this league LAST SEASON.

Did you just prove your own point wrong in the same sentence as putting it forward? I do believe you did.

Did Jelavic and Anichebe score enough to keep us all happy? Clearly not. Are they the worst duo in the prem? Also, clearly not.

I have belatedly come to the conclusion that you are simply being sarcastic.

 

[Petit]

My thoughts exactly! I think someone like Sinclair or McManaman might make a difference, Moses even bigger if Miralles is pushed up top as a false number 9.

What the hell is a false number 9?

 

[formerly manx toffee]

What the hell is a false number 9?

In the hole you say...

*raises single eyebrow

 

[Titus Bramble]

The last thing I would look at is strike rate. Forwards score because they are naturally closer to the goal, so they are more likely to get onto rebounds or loose balls in the box, not because they are better at slotting them. If they can score, fine, but the first thing I would want in a striker is how they help the team in general. In fact the best place to score a goal is runs from Zone 14 (just on top of the box), with somebody already (probably the forward) in front.

In addition, you are talking about replacement for Anichebe. Then its 100% Fletcher if the comparison is Le Fondre. Playing with Le Fondre means we actually forgo any kind of hold-up play for more shots but generally less realistic scoring chances.

So by that logic we should stick Hibbert up front and we'll be rioting every week.

 

[Tree13]

With full respect I will not stop reminding everyone that the age of the poacher is now gone, with Michael Owen retiring rather anonymously as the nail of the coffin.

Forwards advance territory (hence hold-up play), create chances(hence layoffs) and nullify the opponent backs, midfielders support the forward and the Forward so an angle will eventually open up, and backs rush up to create overloads. It is how percentage football is played nowadays...

If all that is true, why are we worried about Jelavic and Anichebe not scoring enough? I mean, Fellaini got 12 and Mirallas got 9 this year; Osman got 8, Pienaar 7 and Naismith 4.

Sunderland scored 41 goals in the league this year, we scored 55. Tell me again about Fletcher's all-round game?

The facts are simple: Jelavic had an off season. To replace him with someone who will score more, and consistently from season to season, will cost AT LEAST £16m (Based on Sevilla refusing West Ham's £14.5m bid for Negredo). The players available for less than that aren't as good at scoring goals, and don't bring their teammates into scoring positions as effectively either. Dumping Jelavic to pick up Fletcher would be dumb, because Jelavic is a better player. I have faith that Martinez can unlock the Jelavic who scored 11 in his first 16 games more easily than he can turn Fletcher into a better player.

 

[Tree13]

yeah but you're only looking at goals here. There is more to a striker than goals. For example, shane long has a brilliant all round game. Most of these strikers are internationals and a lot of them starters, jelavic has a had a brief flirt with starting for croatia and anichebe not so much

The thread's original question was "Are Jelavic and Anichebe the worst pair of strikers in the prem" and it was based on their poor goalscoring records THIS SEASON. So yes, in proving that they aren't the worst at scoring goals I have admittedly focussed on their respective goalscoring records and compared them to other strikers playing for the non-moneybags teams.

Yes there is more to a striker's game than just scoring goals... For instance, Jelavic's contribution to defensive set-pieces, and Anichebe's hold-up play: two small factors in our relatively good goals-conceded tally and the number of goals scored by Fellaini (12), Mirallas (9), Osman (8), Pienaar(7) and Naismith (4) this year.

Long's all-round game... is it so good that you'd accept his personal tally of 8 league goals from 25 starts and 9 games coming off the bench this season? WBA scored 53 league goals this year, we got 55. Lukaku scored 17 of WBA's goals from 20 starts and 15 further appearances off the bench, I'll state quite confidently his all-round game $hits all over that of Shane Long.

As for the final point, look at who these players have to compete with for international caps.... Jelavic has been playing second fiddle to Ivica Olic and Mario Mandzukic. Remind me who Shane Long or Steven Fletcher have to be better than to get their caps?

It's real simple. Unless we spend MORE THAN £15M ON ONE PLAYER, we aren't going to get a better striker than Jelavic. There is a better chance of Martinez getting Jelavic firing on all cylinders again than there is of him turning Long or Fletcher into DIxie f*cking Dean.

 

[Bigmaclad]

The answer is simple:

Play Hibbert up front

 

[Socrates]

Is a marquee striker really a must buy?

Personally, I would rather spend £15m on a world class defender like a young Vidic or Tony Adams.
That or an effective DM. Think Carsley.

Of the 16 games we drew last season, 14 of them were score draws which means we got the goal or goals needed for the win but dropped points because we conceded, often in the last few minutes.

Also, the losses at Reading and Norwich were from winning positions.

Boring it might be but we were all over the moon at 4th place with a series of 1-0 wins a few years back.

On the striker front, I do like the look of that Bony lad from his youtube vid.
Mind you, he won't get that kind of space in the Premier League but he's young enough and appears smart enough to adapt.
Other than that, I know nothing of the lad or whether he would fit into our team and ethic.

The likes of Kone, Ba and Bent wouldn't really improve us that much and so I'd rather spend the money on keeping the ball out of our net.

 

[Jozzy]

As far as which of our young strikers should be given more playing time, the U21 stats has only one winner:

Conor McAleny - 10 goals in 11(1) matches

He was injured part of the season as well, yet when he returned he kept scoring. In comparison, 2nd and 3rd on the U21 goalscorer list was Vellios with 5 goals in 21 matches and Duffy with 5 goals in 23 matches. Now, I don't think Vellios is ****, but McAleny scored twice as many goals in half the amount of matches. There is no record of assists and such on the OS but when it comes to a striker I don't care. Strikers need to be fed, not feed others. That's why we have midfielders, wingers and excellent wing-backs like Bainesy and Coleman.

Will be 21 soon so it's now or never for Connor. Realistically he's not gonna get much game time with us so I'd love to loan him out for a full season and let him show us what he's got.