Silva and Martinez

[MikeH72]

One person is being melodramatic mate, and it ain't me.

Yes it is.

 

[Thomasc]

Unfortunately, I think Silva will face what RM never had to: a successful Liverpool. That will make a massive difference for Silva. If Liverpool are champions (as I expect) then the already impatient fanbase will crush any manager who isn't seen to be making substantial strides in the table and on the domestic cup front.

You do know Liverpool went very close to winning the league in Martinez's First season don’t you?

Anyway, let’s hope that the same fate awaits them this season.

 

[blue61]

Having that lot over the park doing well may not necessarily be a negative for Silva and the players. It didn't hold us back in the 80's. With some astute signings, I'm quite optimistic about next season.

 

[BigMick]

BTW, if Silva secures us 5th spot and a couple of cup SFs before getting off elsewhere, I'd see that as an acceptable return......

Don't forget Dave, it's points that count, not positions!

 

[OneTrueLegend]

On the one hand I still find it mad that we sacked a manager that got us to 2 cup semi finals in 1 season, but watching our performances in the league, at the time I wanted Martinez to go. Part of me still thinks he should have been given another season. On Silva I think we play very differently under him than Martinez, but part of that is the personnel. At the moment we don't have a CF that will score 20 or more league goals a season. Lukaku was a get out of jail free card on numerous occasions for Martinez. DCL is getting chances and working hard, but he is not as good in front of goal, so we are more reliant on Richarlison and Sigurdsson

For me success under Silva would be to win a trophy, I just think that sadly these days managers at clubs like ours know that we are judged on league position so don't prioritize cups unless they manage to get to the later stages. I know this is because its all about money and owners would rather finish 4th than win the fa cup or league cup. But I would rather win the league cup or fa cup and finish 16th

 

[MikeH72]

On the one hand I still find it mad that we sacked a manager that got us to 2 cup semi finals in 1 season, but watching our performances in the league, at the time I wanted Martinez to go. Part of me still thinks he should have been given another season. On Silva I think we play very differently under him than Martinez, but part of that is the personnel. At the moment we don't have a CF that will score 20 or more league goals a season. Lukaku was a get out of jail free card on numerous occasions for Martinez. DCL is getting chances and working hard, but he is not as good in front of goal, so we are more reliant on Richarlison and Sigurdsson

For me success under Silva would be to win a trophy, I just think that sadly these days managers at clubs like ours know that we are judged on league position so don't prioritize cups unless they manage to get to the later stages. I know this is because its all about money and owners would rather finish 4th than win the fa cup or league cup. But I would rather win the league cup or fa cup and finish 16th

Teams that finish 16th don’t win the cups though. Teams that finish in high league positions win cups. Football’s changed unfortunately.

 

[OneTrueLegend]

Teams that finish 16th don’t win the cups though. Teams that finish in high league positions win cups. Football’s changed unfortunately.

In terms of winning it, they have in recent years, have to go back to 2013 for Swansea winning the league cup and Wigan winning the FA cup, but look; Bradford City, Hull City, Sunderland, Southampton, Aston Villa and Crystal Palace have all been in the final of the league cup or FA cup since 2013 and could have won and most of those teams finished in the bottom half of the league, its not impossible to be good in the cup and bad in the league.

 

[MikeH72]

In terms of winning it, they have in recent years, have to go back to 2013 for Swansea winning the league cup and Wigan winning the FA cup, but look; Bradford City, Hull City, Sunderland, Southampton, Aston Villa and Crystal Palace have all been in the final of the league cup or FA cup since 2013 and could have won and most of those teams finished in the bottom half of the league, its not impossible to be good in the cup and bad in the league.

It’s become far less likely in the past 5 years since the “top 6” has become a thing. Just look at the winners of both cups since 2013.

 

[Toffeelover]

* touches wood

and fingers crossed.

 

[Toffeelover]

Unfortunately, I think Silva will face what RM never had to: a successful Liverpool. That will make a massive difference for Silva. If Liverpool are champions (as I expect) then the already impatient fanbase will crush any manager who isn't seen to be making substantial strides in the table and on the domestic cup front.

If they win the league, Silva next season will have to have us right in amongst the top 6 and knocking very loudly at the door of the CL spots.

It's an unfortunate by-product of external events.

Unfortunately that points a hell of a finger at the bulk of our fan base, think back to HK's first season and what happened after so Silva should also be given that same chance.

 

[APN_EFC]

There’s a lot of similarities between Marco Silva and Roberto Martinez....both live and breathe football, both like to play an attacking fluent style and in my humble opinion Silva is starting to get Everton in the same way that Roberto clearly did.
I was a big Martinez fan, primarily because he wanted to entertain and he gave the players a bit of freedom on the pitch. His reliance on the offensive side of the game though and seeming inability to coach a defence cost him his job after a brilliant first season and despite good Cup runs in his final season.
In a way the slow start to Silvas tenure, and the way he’s handled the pressure of a dodgy start at a Club with big expectations, is a real positive....I think it could be a polar opposite period of that we had under Martinez. With Roberto we started brilliantly and faded over three seasons...with Silva I can see us getting stronger and the players understanding his style of play. With the huge changes in playing staff in such a short time and the need to rid the fans, players and indeed the whole Club of the stain that was Sam Allardyce, a slow season shouldn’t have been unexpected. Silva and Brands have brought in technically better players than we’ve had for a good many years and the togetherness of the squad is very obvious. The fact that he’s endured a defensive nightmare for a good part of the season but been able to coach the players to adapt (we’ve seemingly worked out how to defend set pieces and keep clean sheets) is a massive positive.
I expect there’ll be a lot of anti-Martinez responses, and it’s too soon to suggest Silva will be good for us responses, but I can see an exciting future at Everton, and it’ll coincide nicely with the ground move. Good to have some positivity about the Club for a change.

I was a big fan of Martinez too, and I think that in hindsight, he could have actually built on Moyes' stable and solid mid-table / 4th - 8th place finishes by coaching, promotion of young players and better signings. I think he did rely on his own Wigan players a bit too much and where Silva compares well is that he is overhauling a team in disarray and disorganisation, whereas Martinez had a solid base to work from, with younger players. However, Barkley, Stones, Lukaku, Barry McCarthy in the first year, were all good positives, and he could have done even better. I'm also hopeful of Silva for all these reasons.

 

[brieverton]

Both Martinez and Koeman had significantly long streaks where we looked absolutely dire with results to match, and paid the price.

The patience shown to Martinez was extremely generous in the context of the modern era, and with Koeman, I think the spending spree and lack of cohesion with Walsh meant he didn't get that same time. Not that I wanted him to get it.

Silva has had an horrendous 4 month run up to early March and in the current climate, it was not and is not surprising to see him under pressure, albeit reduced with this relatively decent run of form.

That's not saying we should hire and fire willy-nilly, especially after recent experience, but generally patience is in short supply particularly with inflated expectations and huge amounts of money in the game.

I have always expected results to be up and down but after a full season almost in the job, from now on, I really do hope we don't have to endure such a terrible run again. A line has to be set in the sand for that. More clean sheets, more home wins, cohesiveness and organization as a team, with players working for each other over the 90+ minutes. Those are the building blocks.

 

[catcherintherye]

Both Martinez and Koeman had significantly long streaks where we looked absolutely dire with results to match, and paid the price.

The patience shown to Martinez was extremely generous in the context of the modern era, and with Koeman, I think the spending spree and lack of cohesion with Walsh meant he didn't get that same time. Not that I wanted him to get it.

Silva has had an horrendous 4 month run up to early March and in the current climate, it was not and is not surprising to see him under pressure, albeit reduced with this relatively decent run of form.

That's not saying we should hire and fire willy-nilly, especially after recent experience, but generally patience is in short supply particularly with inflated expectations and huge amounts of money in the game.

I have always expected results to be up and down but after a full season almost in the job, from now on, I really do hope we don't have to endure such a terrible run again. A line has to be set in the sand for that. More clean sheets, more home wins, cohesiveness and organization as a team, with players working for each other over the 90+ minutes. Those are the building blocks.

For all the mess we were in under Koeman, he inherited a team with Stones, Deulofeu, Lukaku and Barkley who have all proven themselves to be very good players. He also had upwards of 150 million to spend net. Leicester had won the league the previous season and I don't think he could really complain he went by the end as we were spiralling.

The 2nd summer, where essentially none of the summer signings were working, in spite of large figures being spent on them is inexcusable really.

As for Silva I think he has shown he is able to improve players. At times we are not ruthless enough and I think we need to get fitter (alongside obvious weaknesses off set plays). Had we defended set plays as well as we have defended in open play we'd be comfortably 7th now. They are all things that are workable. The reality is, Martinez never really gave me much confidence with his defence. That's what differentiates Silva to me, he is more pragmatic and is able to look for different solutions in different games.

Where we have struggled is we have lacked potency in games at Goodison. Bernard coming back into form and getting the pace of the league will make a massive difference for us. The same is probably true of Richarlinson. I think they can both kick on further next season and help us to defeat more "low block" teams at home.

 

[mickefc]

I couldn't stand Martinez and I don't mind Silva

 

[PeregrineT]

I stopped reading at "I was a big Martinez fan"...

Except to read on to "primarily because he wanted to entertain ", but then I REALLY stopped.

Martinez was a miserable failure here, so I hope there arent similarities, and he was the opposite of entertaining. His boring attempt to just pass the ball around the back, lead to half a season of good play and 2.5 seasons of some of the worst football to be seen in these parts for decades. All of his players were afraid to pass the ball forwards. There was almost nothing positive about his style here.