Roberto Martinez discussion

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davek said:
Yes, and what is that other than a gilded case of surviving in the PL...it's not success is it?! It's nothing. That's why we all laughed at stuff like the 7th place trophy etc.
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So an average finish of 6th over 8 seasons, is merely gilding around clinging on to our premier league status?

lol
 
davek said:
Of course it is. What else can it it be sped scribed as?

PMSL at the thought of you saying 6th is success.

Dear me.
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Who mentioned success?

As it happens it is a success if you continually outperform your fiscal limitations in the PL

However, that's not a debate for this thread. Your ridiculous assertion that an average finish of 6th in 8 years is nothing more than glorified survival is beyond idiotic even by your recent standards.

We've been part of the CL chasing pack for years, nowhere near the relegation battle that the bottom group endure, nor have we even been in middle of the road 'safe' group. We've been chasing a European place every season and haven't even spared a thought for relegation. To suggest that our aim every season has been nothing more than survival is not only attempting to re-write history it's a chronic effort in trying to dumb down the club to the level that your man crush has lowered us to.

Your credibility is now Zero
 
Success is contextual, while at Wigan st bobbys success was keeping Wigan up. For moyes it was qualifying for Europe. For the likes of city and Chelsea success is winning the league.
last season the 5th place finish with the high points total meant that season was a resounding success, and it also set the bar for Martinez.
the black white thought process of the poster who said 6/8th is a sad indictment of the modern football fan
 
Foot Long Hot Dog said:
Who mentioned success?

As it happens it is a success if you continually outperform your fiscal limitations in the PL

However, that's not a debate for this thread. Your ridiculous assertion that an average finish of 6th in 8 years is nothing more than glorified survival is beyond idiotic even by your recent standards.

We've been part of the CL chasing pack for years, nowhere near the relegation battle that the bottom group endure, nor have we even been in middle of the road 'safe' group. We've been chasing a European place every season and haven't even spared a thought for relegation. To suggest that our aim every season has been nothing more than survival is not only attempting to re-write history it's a chronic effort in trying to dumb down the club to the level that your man crush has lowered us to.

Your credibility is now Zero
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Hahahaha "success".

Yeah ok.

By the way, in which case Martinez must have been a wonderful "success" last season by getting 5th and the most PL points we've ever had....and now you want rid of him.

You're all over the place, your argument (such as it was) is twisted out of all recognition.
 
Moyes first season was what he regularly attained for the following 8 years (average finish was somewhere in the 5th to 8th range). He too did much worse on his second season only to maintain consistency thereafter. We will be regular champions league contenders if this process continues with RM (3rd to 6th).
 
davek said:
Our success/defined end/aim is and has been for some time Premier League survival. The high end finishes have gilded it a bit, but the club is not equipped for anything grander than that - for reasons that are obvious and financial (look at the year we qualified for the CL: there was no reasonable effort to buy in the type of talent that could have took advantage of that opportunity; and look at the way in 2009 we'd achieved a very good PL position plus a cup final appearance - it was met not with more expectancy of taking the next step because that would have cost money, rather it was met with cuts).

In that context the plan on Moyes' departure was to retain PL stability plus give a new twist of a change in the style of play that would not only achieve stability but give the organisation a new identity. Martinez's appointment has to be seen in that light, and, similarly (as Steve says above) any possible threat to his status as manager has to be seen through that prism too. In short: getting shut of Martinez would not only entail a loss of finances in terms of compo, it'd mean an organisation having to go through the Herculean task of creating a new vision of its future identity again. I dont think there's remotely the will to do that unless it is a completely dire situation in the coming couple of months.
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Why would we have though? We had not qualified for the group stages - where the TV money is for a guaranteed 6 match days. The supporters would have seen what exactly the board's future intentions were if we had finished say 3rd that year.
Only securing the qualifying game gave an already risk averse board the perfect excuse.
 
Aar_the_Toffees said:
Moyes first season was what he regularly attained for the following 8 years (average finish was somewhere in the 5th to 8th range). He too did much worse on his second season only to maintain consistency thereafter. We will be regular champions league contenders if this process continues with RM (3rd to 6th).
Click to expand...

Assuming that the 'passing game' delivers results....does it? will it?
 
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