Roberto Martinez discussion

[bring the ghost on]

He's not been sussed out that just a lazy excuse people use without examing the situation. We've suffered badly from injuries and fitness to key players (he needs to address that and take responsibility for the poor pre season) and its effected confidence.

Agreed the injuries haven't helped but can you remember a season in recent history where we have been injury free? You have to get on with it and make the most of the situation.

We had an almost full strength team against West brom and we were very poor. The reason we were poor is because we're too easy to play against.

We saw the same thing against Newcastle and Hull. Teams don't care if we have all the possession because if they sit deep, we can't score. Then they press us hard when we have the ball in defence and force errors which lead to goals.

Martinez needs to mix things up a bit because we are becoming dangerously predictable and we're making opposition managers jobs very easy.

 

[bluerobert]

I don't get all this talk of him being sussed out. He'd managed at Swansea for 2 years and Wigan for 4 years. Opposition teams had the opportunity to scout our games last year. But of course it seems reasonable to me that teams only bothered to learn how we play over the summer because that seems a convient excuse for our poor form this season

 

[davek]

In a way last season was the worst thing that could have happened to Martinez ...and Kenwright. If we look at this in the context of having had Moyes for 10 years even with the ups and downs in those 10 years; The general trend was that we were in a better place after 10 years than when Moyes took over.

Lets not forget Moyes chose to go which left Bill with a problem of filling that void. Bill knew he had to choose a manager that had a long term vision, someone at the helm to be there for another 10 years - the way Bill likes it because it means less difficult conversations for him. To have that first season with RM, took everyone by surprise. Whereas Bill would have expected a slow burning, upward trajectory, re shaping of the EFC identity over several seasons - based on the job interview and vision/strategy presented to him by RM.

The fact that last season happened albeit against a back drop of inheriting a team already match conditioned and fit from Moyes, a premier league where key rivals were poor, and not withstanding the fact that in quite a few games we were gash; has interrupted that process.

IMO I agree that a club in our position should seek that stability based on a vision, but that RM was the wrong choice. However what I/we all think is irrelevant for now.... Bill will hold the burning candle until the heat becomes too much too handle.

But that's looking to the plan to evolve in a wholly results context. Martinez's objective has been to deepen with each season our squad's comfort and mastery of a passing game to a point where it becomes second nature. That was always the plan and if you obsess with results and league placing early on like this you completely miss the points the plan.

On that issue, I've been very critical of the way Martinez failed to progress us in the last transfer window in the summer. He became pretty conservative in giving out contract extensions to the old guard and not investing in the future. He let his belief that he could adapt the old guard and get them to keep on giving us progressive performances get the better of him Now that is looking like hubris as that same conservatism is dragging us down. He needs to be bold next summer and get back on track.

 

[Shagster]

But that's looking to the plan to evolve in a wholly results context. Martinez's objective has been to deepen with each season our squad's comfort and mastery of a passing game to a point where it becomes second nature. That was always the plan and if you obsess with results and league placing early on like this you completely miss the points the plan.

On that issue, I've been very critical of the way Martinez failed to progress us in the last transfer window in the summer. He became pretty conservative in giving out contract extensions to the old guard and not investing in the future. He let his belief that he could adapt the old guard and get them to keep on giving us progressive performances get the better of him Now that is looking like hubris as that same conservatism is dragging us down. He needs to be bold next summer and get back on track.

It is always about results as they and any ensuing success, will be a key objective in any business planning for a premier league club - I'm assuming we have such a plan of course.

I think my point(which may not have come across), is that after such a period of relative stability and overall improvement, it may be a case of one step back to go two steps forward...

 

[eddy]

I don't get all this talk of him being sussed out. He'd managed at Swansea for 2 years and Wigan for 4 years. Opposition teams had the opportunity to scout our games last year. But of course it seems reasonable to me that teams only bothered to learn how we play over the summer because that seems a convient excuse for our poor form this season

I think the best way to explain this would be to say that he has been sussed out as to how we set up, and how we play, with the players available to him. The style of play he wants to impose on the team (philosophy) just does not suit the players. He has to learn how to grind out results with what he has, arguably are best set of players in a long while. He is the manager of Everton not Real Madrid, he needs to learn how to get a goal and defend, cut the flair crap as it just doesn't work for us, get some points or its ` grim reaper`

 

[Foot Long Hot Dog]

But that's looking to the plan to evolve in a wholly results context. Martinez's objective has been to deepen with each season our squad's comfort and mastery of a passing game to a point where it becomes second nature. That was always the plan and if you obsess with results and league placing early on like this you completely miss the points the plan.

On that issue, I've been very critical of the way Martinez failed to progress us in the last transfer window in the summer. He became pretty conservative in giving out contract extensions to the old guard and not investing in the future. He let his belief that he could adapt the old guard and get them to keep on giving us progressive performances get the better of him Now that is looking like hubris as that same conservatism is dragging us down. He needs to be bold next summer and get back on track.

Oh right, so little things like results and league placing are meaningless trinkets in the grand scheme of things.

Truly phenomenal lol

 

[toffeejack]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?x-yt-ts=1421914688&v=WI4zPRW9RaY&x-yt-cl=84503534

if anyone's not seen the swansea documentary film - gives a great insight into how highly rated martinez in, boss watch for any football lovers as well

 

[davek]

It is always about results as they and any ensuing success, will be a key objective in any business planning for a premier league club - I'm assuming we have such a plan of course.

I think my point(which may not have come across), is that after such a period of relative stability and overall improvement, it may be a case of one step back to go two steps forward...

But we dont measure ourselves with 'success'. We haven't for a long time.

The reason Kenwright brought Martinez in was that he bought into his vision that he could deliver a style of football that would ensure stability, because we'd be that grooved into good habits that we would never be in trouble (an emphasis on a system rather than great individual skills that also played well to Kenwright because it promised a production line of players coming through and saving on fees). I think Kenwright was sold on Martinez more on the grand plan at Swansea than the cup win at Wigan.

The plan is still there. You hear it in Martinez's comments defending himself against the press and ex players who want the return to the easy direct approach. I dont think we should judge this on top 5/6/7 finishes or not in the first two seasons, but more on whether we start playing with pace and precision week in, week out and the Martinez stamp is on the team by the end of next season. That's the yardstick for success here at Everton with Martinez.

 

[4737carlin]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?x-yt-ts=1421914688&v=WI4zPRW9RaY&x-yt-cl=84503534

if anyone's not seen the swansea documentary film - gives a great insight into how highly rated martinez in, boss watch for any football lovers as well

For more bad results for us and they might have a chance to get him back.

 

[davek]

Oh right, so little things like results and league placing are meaningless trinkets in the grand scheme of things.

Truly phenomenal lol

You have nothing to offer here. AT ALL.

 

[toffeejack]

For more bad results for us and they might have a chance to get him back.

was what i was thinking watching it actually ha

 

[The Equaliser]

Regarding his philosophy, I think Arsenal have shown in recent seasons that this type of style with total emphasis on possession at the expense of everything else can only get you so far, even with top quality players. They have been poor defensively even though they get into the top 4, but they won't challenge for title playing like that.

Their change of tack last week at City showed in abundance the necessity to change the emphasis accordingly to suit the situation you are in. With the possible exception of Guardiola's Barca all great teams are built on the basis of a solid defence. Martinez's philosophy has more chance of working in Spain or the like than in the Premier League.

*awaits Davek's accusation of 'wanting a return to hoofball'*

 

[bainesontoast]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?x-yt-ts=1421914688&v=WI4zPRW9RaY&x-yt-cl=84503534

if anyone's not seen the swansea documentary film - gives a great insight into how highly rated martinez in, boss watch for any football lovers as well

Not sure if I'm missing a joke here or not but you've linked some horror film.


Wait, it is a joke isn't it?

 

[Foot Long Hot Dog]

You have nothing to offer here. AT ALL.

Pathetic attempt at closing down the debate and deflecting away from your latest embarrassing post.

Your recent contributions have been getting more bizarre by the day, to the point were you even tried to become a parody of yourself to cover your blushes.

 

[davek]

Pathetic attempt at closing down the debate and deflecting away from your latest embarrassing post.

Your recent contributions have been getting more bizarre by the day, to the point were you even tried to become a parody of yourself to cover your blushes.

I've no idea how I've done that. I've tried to reason that we are not as badly off as some are suggesting. You obviously think that's 'strange' and that running around screaming that your hair is on fire and encouraging general panic is a more fitting way to look at the position we're in.

Now THAT is bizarre.