Roberto Martinez discussion

[Donald Twain]

God help you lot on here if it gets anywhere near Leeds away 1993-94 ! Lemmings and cliffs spring to mind.

 

[Khalekan]

Agreed. Somethings changed.

I think what changed him was the last seven minutes against Arsenal and the first seven minutes against Cheksea the following week.

Bobby panicked as the defenders kept shooting us in the foot.

Instead of the cavalier mix of tactics from last season's Goodison derby onwards, we saw a retreat to slow, safety first, boring tiki taki only.

I do believe this has now changed and that Pulis was an aberration.

Can't wait for Saturday.

 

[Saint Domingo]

Agreed. Somethings changed. I've still have a couple of games still on my sky box. Take the newcastle games. The season before we clicked and kicked on with passing and power. This season from the off (apart from Wolsburg home) we've looked like OAPs in line for they're pension. One season can't knacker pro footballers or has the training changed to add more and more fitness to cover for Europa Leaugue and having an opposite effect. Looks like it, but on the management and players can answer that one.

I till maintain its purely down to personnel. When you watch highlights from last season McCarthy is the one setting the tempo, shifting the ball around quickly to get Barry and Barkley into positions of space to get their head up and pick a pass. He was also winning it back as quickly and often surging forward taking players out of the game. Before he got injured we'd had a sluggish start but we were talking about pushing for fourth not fighting relegation. You can add in the fitness of John Stones last season making for a settled defense (we've already got back to drawing not losing since he returned). So with McCarthy and Stones shackling the door firmly shut we only needed someone to step up and put the ball in the net. Mirallas was almost injury free most of the season, as was Osman, and he had Deulofeu and Pienaar contributing. We won loads of games by a single goal.

This season with Stones' injury and Distin's decline the defense has been shaky, we got away with it a bit at first as McCarthy was still around but as soon as he was injured the door was wide open. The midfield struggle to do anything well without McCarthy and then in the offensive areas you've had Mirallas' head being somewhere else, Deulofeu gone, Osman and Pienaar injured, and Lukaku struggling with fitness for half a season. Quite simply more goals being conceded less being scored.

The system Martinez has built works with the right cogs in it. We saw that last season. If we get a replacement for Deulofeu, McCarthy and Stones stay fit for the rest of the campaign and we got some cameos out of Pienaar and Osman the winning football would come back. Martinez's major flaw is though that when his lynchpins aren't there (Stones McCarthy Lukaku) he still plays the same way and expects the same results. This is where his ego is so damaging.

When Moyes went people said that they didn't care about inconsistency as long as there were some highs. This is what we have to accept with Martinez. When its good it can be really good, dominating possession away from home at top sides restricting them to barely a shot on target. When its bad it is a train crash. He is I fear a big club manager who given a squad of 22 top players could make incredible teams. At Everton, however, he only has a handful. When they all play its great, but he doesn't recognise the problems when they don't.

 

[davek]

It's such a shame to see such a previously great poster like Davek reduced to what he has become.

I blame the fact damon has crawled so far up his arse it's affecting his brain.

It's called loyalty.

An Everton manager comes in and has a great season and we were all (well, apart from the professional plotters and Bobby haters) over the moon with the little Catalan magician. 5 months into the new season many of the same people are wanting the feller out on his arse.

I'm just not open to that level of hypocrisy and fickleness. I didn't change, those people changed.

 

[Goat]

It's called loyalty.

An Everton manager comes in and has a great season and we were all (well, apart from the professional plotters and Bobby haters) over the moon with the little Catalan magician. 5 months into the new season many of the same people are wanting the feller out on his arse.

I'm just not open to that level of hypocrisy and fickleness. I didn't change, those people changed.

I bet you were right behind Kendall in his 3rd stint as well David, I mean surely what he had done before meant he should have been given more time?

Anyway, its simple what needs to be done here, we are a team in trouble, looking down the barrel of relegation, days we thought had gone, theres only 1 man that can take us back to the promised land of 5th.

Come home David, the chosen one, In Moyes We Again Must Trust.

 

[davek]

Tactics have changed from last season tho. He didn't change too much last season. There's a myth devoloped here that under moyes we played boring direct football week after week, which simply isn't true.

RM added to what we already did. Kept possession more, played more from the back and most importantly went toe to toe with the big boys (which by not doing so was Moyes's weakness)

He's had us playing differently this season (until maybe last couple of games) Slow boring tika taka from the back at all costs. With several key players out of posistion. Combined with awful rotations and Awfull subs.

Excuse me, but that sounds like a fundamental change to what went before to me.

As for the different tempo played this season: that is down to a lot of key injuries to players who can drive that tempo on.

There's no question Martinez shoulders a lot of blame here, but to deny the relevance of his first season as a reason to pour scorn on the people calling for his head right now is ridiculous.

 

[davek]

I bet you were right behind Kendall in his 3rd stint as well David, I mean surely what he had done before meant he should have been given more time?

Anyway, its simple what needs to be done here, we are a team in trouble, looking down the barrel of relegation, days we thought had gone, theres only 1 man that can take us back to the promised land of 5th.

Come home David, the chosen one, In Moyes We Again Must Trust.

I didn't want HK III, no. But Johnson gave him a negative net spend and it was a miracle we survived.

 

[Foot Long Hot Dog]

I didn't want HK III, no. But Johnson gave him a negative net spend and it was a miracle we survived.

He wasn't well at that time and shouldn't have been anywhere near the managers seat.

 

[Seanjd]

Excuse me, but that sounds like a fundamental change to what went before to me.

As for the different tempo played this season: that is down to a lot of key injuries to players who can drive that tempo on.

There's no question Martinez shoulders a lot of blame here, but to deny the relevance of his first season as a reason to pour scorn on the people calling for his head right now is ridiculous.

I agree that last season was very different to what came before.

Tempo wise, I would be interested to hear your thoughts on which injured players have cause our tempo to drop?

 

[davek]

He wasn't well at that time and shouldn't have been anywhere near the managers seat.

At least he had a go, unlike that phoney Gray.

'Great' my arse.

 

[LouReedwalkonthewildside]

Come home David, the chosen one, In Moyes We Again Must Trust.

Puts shotgun under chin...........

 

[davek]

I agree that last season was very different to what came before.

Tempo wise, I would be interested to hear your thoughts on which injured players have cause our tempo to drop?

We miss McCarthy badly. And we've missed Stones bringing it out from the back. I'd even say we mss Pienaar for the reason outlined by Brownie a few weeks back. Not an injury, but Deolofeu's injection of pace and directness out wide has been sorely missed too.

Martinez didn't buy well in the summer. There's no doubt that has compounded it all.

 

[Foot Long Hot Dog]

At least he had a go, unlike that phoney Gray.

'Great' my arse.

Gray wasn't stupid, he was making more money being the voice of football than he was ever going to make in the precarious managers seat at an under resourced Everton who looked like a cautionary tale in the making.

He was accused of bottling it, I call it common sense.

 

[davek]

Gray wasn't stupid, he was making more money being the voice of football than he was ever going to make in the precarious managers seat at an under resourced Everton who looked like a cautionary tale in the making.

He was accused of bottling it, I call it common sense.

I call it exploiting your former club for personal gain.

 

[eddy]

They looked ok with it last season when they all embraced it and ran up a record 72 point total.

They were ok with it up until the last three games of the season where we were terrible, and gifted 4th place away. Most forget this as they were `giddy` with a record points haul. This slide continued in all the pre season games and has continued throughout this season. In my opinion the last three games of last season other teams had worked out how to play against us, and Martinez had no plan b. He has been dogmatic about his philosophy and refuses to adapt. We play the same against all opposition, surely you would set up differently against say Chelsea, then stoke? not Martinez 70% possession and nothing to show for it, same approach each game. I think the players are fed up with it as well, its `grim reaper` time