Roberto Martinez discussion

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Love the way people bring Ferguson into it, what they seem to forget is before Ferguson went to United he had won this with St Mirren
And this with Aberdeen.

The man was a winner

Martinez did win the FA Cup...

You did say I was surprised I didn't mention it...
 
Well he did put Galloway in for a game over xmas... Stoke at home.


He couldn't play the support players like Oviedo as they were injured. Browning is out all season. Stones at right back doesn't work.

Oviedo, since being fit, has played in every game he's been available for in 2016.

The tactics, forget about the players, the tactics have been at fault at home. Managers decision, its why we've shipped 20+ (i've forgot the total amount because its that bad). Thats the manager
 
What are you on about???

I've said before that Howard was obviously injured and that meant that RM had no choice but to drop him. But I do believe that Howard may well have been dropped to the bench following Joel's displays and Howard's c*** ups v Swansea...

Talk about over-dramatic mate
I'm not being over dramatic mate. I'm saying that is how i'd see it if i thought you were right. But i don't.

You said that the injury to Howard was 'nothing more than a convenient excuse'. Note 'nothing more than'. You're saying 'he was dropped'. That suggests that there was a choice to make, that Howard could have been selected but wasn't. There's no other way of interpreting it, that is what you meant.

I'm saying that if Howard was not starting, he should have been on the bench. Yes, he's not great but he's clearly not declined to the extent that he's not even our second best keeper. And yet for 3 games he wasn't on the bench. A young lad was, who could have been called into action in the very first minute of a game and asked to keep a clean sheet. Had he conceded 4 goals and had a nightmare it could have set him back years. If Martinez made up an injury story about Howard to save face (for both of them) then I would want him sacked for putting both the club and Stanek in such a position. But i don't think he did.
 
Howard is Daves get out of jail card this year, Distin took the brunt last year, but apparantly Howard has been at fault for every goal

Oh.. I thought it was Martinez's inability to buy adults for the squad.
To be fair..With going backwards being the new progressing anyway, we are doing just great so he doesn't need a get out of jail card.
 
The tactics, forget about the players, the tactics have been at fault at home. Managers decision, its why we've shipped 20+ (i've forgot the total amount because its that bad). Thats the manager

It's 22 or 23, I believe.

Well, yes, tactics are a huge part.

However, tactics don't account for Howard diving in at the feet of players to give penalties away vs Swansea and Leicester.

They don't explain McCarthy and Lukaku both failing to track Rondon when that is the job they had been given by the manager.

They don't explain Stones missing that tackle on Ighalo in the first game of the season.

So no, it is quite obviously not 'all down to tactics', just as the good results we've had aren't.
 
I'm not being over dramatic mate. I'm saying that is how i'd see it if i thought you were right. But i don't.

You said that the injury to Howard was 'nothing more than a convenient excuse'. Note 'nothing more than'. You're saying 'he was dropped'. That suggests that there was a choice to make, that Howard could have been selected but wasn't. There's no other way of interpreting it, that is what you meant.

I'm saying that if Howard was not starting, he should have been on the bench. Yes, he's not great but he's clearly not declined to the extent that he's not even our second best keeper. And yet for 3 games he wasn't on the bench. A young lad was, who could have been called into action in the very first minute of a game and asked to keep a clean sheet. Had he conceded 4 goals and had a nightmare it could have set him back years. If Martinez made up an injury story about Howard to save face (for both of them) then I would want him sacked for putting both the club and Stanek in such a position. But i don't think he did.

Re-read my explanation mate, as I did phrase my op badly.

He was clearly injured but I do think it had finally got to the point where RM knew he had a huge decision to make. Whether he would have made that call is up in the air for now as Howard got injured and he didn't have to.
 
AT least you got it in there :)

That was kind of the joke pal ;)

Of course I'm not comparing RM's record to that of Fergie's.

What I could compare them in is that at that time Ferguson stuck by his beliefs despite immense pressure not to do so, and made them work.

Now, if RM can do the same, then there's no reason he can't take us to where we want to be.

So far, he's had a good season, a bad season and what has proved to be a so far frustrating season. However, there's over a third of it left so why don't you wait and see before writing him off...
 
Oh.. I thought it was Martinez's inability to buy adults for the squad.
To be fair..With going backwards being the new progressing anyway, we are doing just great so he doesn't need a get out of jail card.

Well we're not going backwards as the season isn't finished. In fact, anything above 11th would technically be an improvement.

And what do you mean by 'buying adults'.

Can't question his transfers, of all the things to question him on.
 
And yet the fact remains that (contrary to the popular view) the defensive record is getting better.

7 goals conceded in the last two months,

5th best record in the PL in that time.

Time to change the well worn record on defensive weakness. We're putting it right and the facts back that up. But feel free to carry on ignoring the facts.

11th.
 
It's 22 or 23, I believe.

Well, yes, tactics are a huge part.

However, tactics don't account for Howard diving in at the feet of players to give penalties away vs Swansea and Leicester.

They don't explain McCarthy and Lukaku both failing to track Rondon when that is the job they had been given by the manager.

They don't explain Stones missing that tackle on Ighalo in the first game of the season.

So no, it is quite obviously not 'all down to tactics', just as the good results we've had aren't.

The Swansea one they do, because it's Martinez who encourages Stones to play out from the back and tells him not to launch it. This then leads Stones to play a poor pass back to Howard...

I agree with @Ihaters Howard has been used as a scape goat this season. If you leave your keeper as isolated as Everton do then he's going to eventually start making mistakes and look bad. This in turn will knock his confidence and it's a downward spiral. He should have been dropped ages ago, but I fear that he wasn't because Martinez suspected the issue would still be there but with Joel and then people would start to look elsewhere for explanations.

It's mad cos Sunderland and Wolfsburg at home, many will see as some of our best performances over the last year, but in both games Howard played a massive part as both oppositions had better chances than we did.
 
Re-read my explanation mate, as I did phrase my op badly.

He was clearly injured but I do think it had finally got to the point where RM knew he had a huge decision to make. Whether he would have made that call is up in the air for now as Howard got injured and he didn't have to.
I accept what you're saying but that's a massive back track.
 
Well we're not going backwards as the season isn't finished. In fact, anything above 11th would technically be an improvement.

And what do you mean by 'buying adults'.

Can't question his transfers, of all the things to question him on.

Dave's favourite defence is that Martinez is building a team of kids that have all these issues.. If that's the problem.. buy a grown up or two as well.
 
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