Roberto Martinez discussion

[toffeeblue9]

Yet had the players converted some of the chances they created vs WBA, it would have looked very likely... small margins and shows the difference 3 points will make, either way

Yep, it wouldn't take a huge amount to turn it around. You may be able to tell from my posts that I'm generally pro-Martinez, but my faith in his ability to turn this season round with regard to garnering enough points to satisfy the majority of the fans is practically non-existent now

I've enjoyed the football but Moyes survived here so long because he delivered consistent top 8 or above finishes (9 out of 11 season if memory serves) - Martinez is on the verge of a 2nd successive bottom half finish, he won't survive that and, to be fair, I'd struggle to articulate a convincing argument why he should

 

[BlueToff]

Is there a conspiracy theories thread? I think this belongs there

Read my response to Tubey

 

[Tubey]

Read my response to Tubey

Which is absolute nonsense.

If Howard had remained fit, he'd be playing right now. 99.9% certain; the proof is in the other 50 odd games he got away with being absolute rubbish.

The only reason he isn't playing now is because it'd be suicidal to drop Robles due to results. That's it.

No conspiracy, no nothing - just a manager who got very lucky with an injury to hide his woeful team selection in that position for months and months on end.

 

[nsno-chris]

You're very wrong. It's equally down to the players as it is Martinez.

Who gets instructions from the manager. Dave as already stated, and figures to prove, that with a more conservative back four we conceeded less goals while still scoring; so the manager makes the decision to change this so he takes the flack, his system and way of playing has the most direct affect on how we play games i.e. the majority of times hes got it bang on away from home

 

[bluewally]

Make no mistake he was dropped.

Read my response to Tubey

 

[nsno-chris]

You are holding this manager to a higher expectation - as you have since he arrived (sorry, BEFORE he arrived). Take a look at the record books for the last decade of seasons and you'll see we are about where we have been at this stage on a number of occasions.

It's childlike to expect vast differences in one manager's performances as opposed to another managers simply because you want him out of the club. The strong team you talk about, btw, is a result of THIS MANAGER attracting them and developing them. Bit of a dilemma for you that, I know, but there we are. If he 'fails' with them then he's the one that's got us into a position where that perceived failure has been able to happen.

The season as far as I'm concerned (and I've been consistent all the way from week one to now) is that while we are settling and developing into a new first team and style of play then a very good cup run plus a 60 point season would be a good season. We have one with the LC campaign, and might even have another in the FA Cup. The PL points total is going to fall short of 60 points, so that's stopped it being a good season overall. A 'ruined season' as you declare it is way wide of the mark though. You might want to tone down the amateur dramatics. There's no excuse for you because I know that you know what a real ruined season looks like.

He had the foundations there, that was evident in his first seaosn. He ripped them apart and it ain't working.

And again, you've failed to directly respond to the manager being at fault for changing a conservative back four (your words) and not change it back once he noticed the issues. The manager takes full repsonisbility amigo

 

[davek]

This is a decent article from Ian Herbert. The quotes from Martinez though underline his thinking.

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/...-way-whether-its-popular-or-not-a6882561.html

The key statement made in that was:

He does not feel such a very long way from something incredibly fine at Everton: an achievement which will have the club’s fans looking back one day and wondering where the hell all the early negativity came from.

You dont turn back from that and tear up the plan. You give it time to unfold.

 

[Sennott Street]

So how did Fergie turn it round, then?

 

[PhilM]

What is enough to get him sacked? If not 2 seasons of this then 3 or maybe 4?

The majority of people are not saying two poor season isn't enough. What they're saying is, including myself, is give him those two seasons.

We've still got a third of his third season (his second potential poor season) left. It may be a successful, an acceptable or a disappointing season.

If Martinez is able to help the squad to have a successful run then well done. If he isn't and the poor run continues then his job will be in doubt.

Let's not beat around the bush, I think we all know (including Martinez himself) that there's pressure on him regarding his tenure as manager.

Only come May will we know if a change is truly necessary. Yes there'll be concerns about players leaving, but would someone else avert that?

For every Adkins swapped for a Pochettino where an improvement is seen, there's also a Rodgers swapped for Klopp with no real progress.

The same with Leicester where Pearson was replaced with Ranieri, there's a Pardew being swapped for a Carver and a McClaren.

To make it clear, I'm not saying Martinez should have a free pass and should stay post-May. I'm saying let's wait and see come the summer.

 

[Lanolin]

Is he injured now? No...

Make no mistake he was dropped. Not as quick as he should have been obviously and Martinez must take the blame for that.

But that injury - while I do think it was a genuine knock - was nothing more than a convenient excuse.

Now, as I said, that does reflect badly on RM and he has to take the responsibility for picking him, though that in no way means that Howard should get off scot-free for his awful displays.

If that is the case then I take back everything i've said about letting him try to turn it around and demand that he be sacked instantly. Literally instantly, right this very second.

If Roberto has played with this team's league position, and potentially a young lad's career, by putting us in a position where an untried kid may have had to come on and play a premier league game well before he's ready, just because he didn't have the bottle to make a big decision and potentially upset someone then I want him absolutely nowhere near our club and would expect us to not to pay compensation due to an obvious case of gross misconduct.

Luckily, i think you're talking rubbish and we won't have to do any of that.

 

[Ihaters]

He stayed faithful to the GK way too long. Stevie Wonder can see the improvement in the defence since he's been benched. Next season Howard will be elsewhere and that will make a major difference.

Our problems have run far deeper than just Howard (who still made a lot of good saves this season).

 

[BlueToff]

Who gets instructions from the manager. Dave as already stated, and figures to prove, that with a more conservative back four we conceeded less goals while still scoring; so the manager makes the decision to change this so he takes the flack, his system and way of playing has the most direct affect on how we play games i.e. the majority of times hes got it bang on away from home

Yes, the players get their instructions from RM.

The same players who have scored over 60 goals this season.

Browning got injured, Stones playing at right back was getting grief. So who's the other option to Coleman.

When Baines got back, Oviedo was injured and Galloway, although playing well, would expect to be replaced by Baines who has proven himself and his quality.

Now he's been playing Coleman and (since he returned from injury) Oviedo...

 

[bluewally]

You dont turn back from that and tear up the plan. You give it time to unfold.

Will you ever admit even the possibility that you unfold it and its no good?

 

[davek]

Our problems have run far deeper than just Howard (who still made a lot of good saves this season).

Erm....

 

[Sennott Street]

This is a decent article from Ian Herbert. The quotes from Martinez though underline his thinking.

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/...-way-whether-its-popular-or-not-a6882561.html

I love how papers in the UK can use profanity. Gets right to the point of Evertonians' frustrations.