Roberto Martinez discussion

[BlueToff]

And finishing 5th was Martinez freak season

Why was 4th never a possibility? We have our best squad in years playing according to you our best football in generations

We're 6 points off 5th currently.

Hypothetically, let's say we get 9 wins from our last 12 games as we did in 2013/14, we could very easily finish 5th/6th.

So would you still call it a freak season?

We are currently 11th, with 12 games left. Wait until the end of the season to call his first one a 'freak' result.

 

[davek]

Quite simple, the squad at our disposal is 1000 times better than Brett Angell, bakayoko, Gareth farrelly, Danny Williamson, David ginola, gazza.....I can go on. That's the stark difference. If you want to bang on about the early 90s then lets, but we've moved on as a club and we have a very strong team. That's a fact

The seasons a failure, plain and simple, the results don't lie. The league is wide open and we've blown a huge opportunity and that is at the feet of one man, and one man alone.

But you've missed the boat again and chosen a specific part of my post to get your rebuttal in; however ill highlight it again, going off your original post, the manager DECIDED to go against the obvious instead of dealing with the issue at hand.

You are holding this manager to a higher expectation - as you have since he arrived (sorry, BEFORE he arrived). Take a look at the record books for the last decade of seasons and you'll see we are about where we have been at this stage on a number of occasions.

It's childlike to expect vast differences in one manager's performances as opposed to another managers simply because you want him out of the club. The strong team you talk about, btw, is a result of THIS MANAGER attracting them and developing them. Bit of a dilemma for you that, I know, but there we are. If he 'fails' with them then he's the one that's got us into a position where that perceived failure has been able to happen.

The season as far as I'm concerned (and I've been consistent all the way from week one to now) is that while we are settling and developing into a new first team and style of play then a very good cup run plus a 60 point season would be a good season. We have one with the LC campaign, and might even have another in the FA Cup. The PL points total is going to fall short of 60 points, so that's stopped it being a good season overall. A 'ruined season' as you declare it is way wide of the mark though. You might want to tone down the amateur dramatics. There's no excuse for you because I know that you know what a real ruined season looks like.

 

[Ihaters]

Top 4 was never in the offing. Leicester's season is a freak occurrence that no one could foresee. We're not going backwards at all. Anyone with two eyes in their head can see the vast improvement ion the way we play football.

Football is played in 2 directions and for every bit of progress going forwards, we have had a similar decline in reverse.
Our style going forwards, is pretty good at times, but its only a freak occurrence that United, Liverpool Chelsea and City are all playing poorly.. Leicester have simply been that good for well over a year now..

Sadly we didn't take advantage of the poor form of Liverpool , City, United and Chelsea and instead capitulated again and handed the top4 spots to the likes of Spurs or Leicester.

We have a squad easily capable of matching United's and yet we are where we are.

 

[toffeeblue9]

Scraping into 6th or 7th in a wide open season doesn't make a good season it just shows how our expectations are being slowly managed down from the "I will get you into the Champions league" statement. 3 seasons later and no closer than ever

What is enough to get him sacked? If not 2 seasons of this then 3 or maybe 4?

I'd say before a ball was kicked that 7th would have been a par score

Nothing ever works out the way you expect, but regardless of how things pan out I still say 7th is acceptable, anything better is good and anything less is an under-performance. It's subjective based on how good we think our squad is vs our peers.

He over-performed vs expectations in his 1st season and very much under-performed last season.

At the moment, he's under-performing but semis in the league cup was a reasonable performance, we're still in the FA Cup and we're 6 points off 5th place. It wouldn't take too much for him to turn it around and make it a successful season, but I'd agree, being honest, that this seems unlikely at this juncture

 

[davek]

Football is played in 2 directions and for every bit of progress going forwards, we have had a similar decline in reverse.
Our style going forwards, is pretty good at times, but its only a freak occurrence that United, Liverpool Chelsea and City are all playing poorly.. Leicester have simply been that good for well over a year now..

Sadly we didn't take advantage of the poor form of Liverpool , City, United and Chelsea and instead capitulated again and handed the top4 spots to the likes of Spurs or Leicester.

We have a squad easily capable of matching United's and yet we are where we are.

He stayed faithful to the GK way too long. Stevie Wonder can see the improvement in the defence since he's been benched. Next season Howard will be elsewhere and that will make a major difference.

 

[bluewally]

I'd say before a ball was kicked that 7th would have been a par score

Nothing ever works out the way you expect, but regardless of how things pan out I still say 7th is acceptable, anything better is good and anything less is an under-performance. It's subjective based on how good we think our squad is vs our peers.

He over-performed vs expectations in his 1st season and very much under-performed last season.

At the moment, he's under-performing but semis in the league cup was a reasonable performance, we're still in the FA Cup and we're 6 points off 5th place. It wouldn't take too much for him to turn it around and make it a successful season, but I'd agree, being honest, that this seems unlikely at this juncture

Great post. It clearly states your opinion but at the end you introduce a realism that is missing from many other posters. I hope we finish fifth and I am proven wrong but going on our form to date we are not going to do that.

 

[BlueToff]

I'd say before a ball was kicked that 7th would have been a par score

Nothing ever works out the way you expect, but regardless of how things pan out I still say 7th is acceptable, anything better is good and anything less is an under-performance. It's subjective based on how good we think our squad is vs our peers.

He over-performed vs expectations in his 1st season and very much under-performed last season.

At the moment, he's under-performing but semis in the league cup was a reasonable performance, we're still in the FA Cup and we're 6 points off 5th place. It wouldn't take too much for him to turn it around and make it a successful season, but I'd agree, being honest, that this seems unlikely at this juncture

Yet had the players converted some of the chances they created vs WBA, it would have looked very likely... small margins and shows the difference 3 points will make, either way

 

[mightymoyes]

They don't boo him relentlessly each game... If... if...

Surely that's no different to say 'if' Barkley's shot the other day had been an inch to the left we'd have scored and possibly gone onto win the game, or 'if' the ref/lino had done their job at Chelsea we'd be two points better off and would have got a valuable win.

The home form is not good enough, no. I don't think that is enough to get him sacked.

12 games to go, and a lot can happen - either way.

not yet but they will be by the end of the season unless theres been some sort of miracle with our home form

 

[bluewally]

He stayed faithful to the GK way too long. Stevie Wonder can see the improvement in the defence since he's been benched. Next season Howard will be elsewhere and that will make a major difference.

Since he got injured you mean.

 

[BlueToff]

Great post. It clearly states your opinion but at the end you introduce a realism that is missing from many other posters. I hope we finish fifth and I am proven wrong but going on our form to date we are not going to do that.

I don't think you'll find many posters that have said we'll 'definitely' finish top six.

All I have said all along is wait until the end of the season to make a judgement. We've shown signs that we know how to turn it around and it's really frustrating we didn't carry that on vs WBA. Doesn't change much though as long as there is a positive reaction.

 

[BlueToff]

Since he got injured you mean.

Is he injured now? No...

Make no mistake he was dropped. Not as quick as he should have been obviously and Martinez must take the blame for that.

But that injury - while I do think it was a genuine knock - was nothing more than a convenient excuse.

Now, as I said, that does reflect badly on RM and he has to take the responsibility for picking him, though that in no way means that Howard should get off scot-free for his awful displays.

 

[Tubey]

Is he injured now? No...

Make no mistake he was dropped. Not as quick as he should have been obviously and Martinez must take the blame for that.

But that injury - while I do think it was a genuine knock - was nothing more than a convenient excuse.

Now, as I said, that does reflect badly on RM and he has to take the responsibility for picking him, though that in no way means that Howard should get off scot-free for his awful displays.

Oh come on!!!

 

[Moomin]

Is he injured now? No...

Make no mistake he was dropped. Not as quick as he should have been obviously and Martinez must take the blame for that.

But that injury - while I do think it was a genuine knock - was nothing more than a convenient excuse.

Now, as I said, that does reflect badly on RM and he has to take the responsibility for picking him, though that in no way means that Howard should get off scot-free for his awful displays.

I reckon next league game, he starts.

 

[bluewally]

Is he injured now? No...

Make no mistake he was dropped. Not as quick as he should have been obviously and Martinez must take the blame for that.

But that injury - while I do think it was a genuine knock - was nothing more than a convenient excuse.

Now, as I said, that does reflect badly on RM and he has to take the responsibility for picking him, though that in no way means that Howard should get off scot-free for his awful displays.

Is there a conspiracy theories thread? I think this belongs there

 

[BlueToff]

Oh come on!!!

As I said, he needed to be dropped and should have been.

I stated in a previous post yesterday to, I believe, @chazzle_dazzle that my thought is that Martinez knew after the Swansea fiasco that putting Howard back in was going to be extremely difficult, and that injury came at a convenient time for him.

I also said in that post that it reflected badly on RM, which I have always said in regards to him picking Howard.