Roberto Martinez discussion

[BlueToff]

That's where you and others here disagree. It wasn't good enough previously.. why is it now?

Because there is still a third of the season left...

If we finish where we are now, then yes serious consideration may need to be taken as to his future or at least if he is to carry on a drastic change.

But we're just as likely to end up finishing 7th as we are 14th because the league is so close, so let's just wait and see ey?

 

[BlueToff]

You think Wel Achieve this now still?

I don't think he was saying that and personally feel we probably won't.

Key is to taking it game by game for the next 12 matches. It's not like we're in the last few weeks of the season yet.

 

[willo30]

You think Wel Achieve this now still?

Nope. I want him gone but did say at the end of last season that if he could get us 60 points this season I wouldn't argue if he stayed.

60 point squad is what he inherited in my opinion so I just wanted him to prove he hadn't taken us backwards.

 

[BlueToff]

5th, 6th, 7th mean nothing in terms of expectations. Points is the only way to gauge it.

2 seasons ago we got 72 points. Moyes once got us 61 points, which was our best season? Some would say 72 points, some would say 4th place. Both are probably right but getting more points means you lost or drew less and won more. Other teams which we had no control over did better as well which is why we finished 5th.

My point is if we were to finish 5th, 6th, 7th on around 50 odd points then I would see that as a failure. If we were to finish 8th on 60 points then that would be my expectation fulfilled.

Eh?

I mean, I kind of see your point but I would rather finish 5th than 8th...

 

[BlueToff]

It matters where you finish, nothing else. Finishing 1st is winning and everything else is irrelevant.

All this five points off 5th etc, etc is embarSssing

As is saying anything less than winning is irrelevant.

 

[willo30]

Eh?

I mean, I kind of see your point but I would rather finish 5th than 8th...

Yeh 8th was probably a bit far off but it's points for me and always has been this season.

 

[bluewally]

Because there is still a third of the season left...

If we finish where we are now, then yes serious consideration may need to be taken as to his future or at least if he is to carry on a drastic change.

But we're just as likely to end up finishing 7th as we are 14th because the league is so close, so let's just wait and see ey?

just as likely isn't quite true. It's just as likely if you don't look at our form.

35 pts from 78 this season

36 pts to play for. If we go by the points return % so far this season that would give us 16 pts giving us a total of 51 for the season.

 

[BlueToff]

Yeh 8th was probably a bit far off but it's points for me and always has been this season.

Okay fair enough.

I generally agree with your point.

We should always aim for 60 points and then obviously where we end up will depend on other sides.

For example, one year 60 points would be enough for top four, but the next it would only get us 7th.

I'm guessing that's the general gist?

 

[willo30]

Okay fair enough.

I generally agree with your point.

We should always aim for 60 points and then obviously where we end up will depend on other sides.

For example, one year 60 points would be enough for top four, but the next it would only get us 7th.

I'm guessing that's the general gist?

That's exactly it. I'm only concerned in Everton.

 

[bluewally]

That's exactly it. I'm only concerned in Everton.

Points isn't really an indicator over time.

60 points in a season where several teams are underperforming may be worse than 50 points in a tighter season

 

[Ihaters]

But that would never happen but see your point. To be honest I don't care how good or crap other teams are in the league I expect us to win around 60 points easily. Breaking it down would be 10 - 12 home wins, 5 or 6 away wins and around 15 draws. That would give us 60 - 70 points.

Doesn't really bother me how many points we get, I just want to see us as high up the table as possible..
One is a natural side effect of the other of course, but given the choice of more points or a higher league position, i'd take the league position every time.

 

[BlueToff]

just as likely isn't quite true. It's just as likely if you don't look at our form.

35 pts from 78 this season

36 pts to play for. If we go by the points return % so far this season that would give us 16 pts giving us a total of 51 for the season.

Okay, so that's taking the whole of the season into account.

How about going on recent form? For the issue of fairness, let's do it from the turn of the year as that can be identified as a definite 'half-way point' in the season?

Our recent form, since the turn of the year, in the league.

DDDLWWL

Compare that with the teams up to 5th, and down to 14th (So I'd say within touching distance either way)

Man Utd - WDWLWDL
Sotton - LWWWDWW
West Ham - WWLDWLD
Liverpool - LDLWLDW
Watford - LLLWDLW
Stoke - LWDLLLW
Chelsea - WDDWDDW
Palace - LLLLLDL
WBA - WDLDDLW

To me, that shows that we have just as much chance of being able to finish higher than we are now, based on our recent form.

 

[willo30]

Points isn't really an indicator over time.

60 points in a season where several teams are underperforming may be worse than 50 points in a tighter season

50 points would always be a bad season regardless of how tight it was. 60 points I think would be a fair reflection of us a club.

 

[whiteshadow]

League position is the real indicator of performance not points.

The Premier League has seen increasing TV revenue that will be further improved next season meaning that even the so called, small teams can buy a higher class of player than they were previously able to. That means all the teams in the league will be, in theory, more competitive than they ever have been with each other, barring the super rich clubs. As it'll be so much more competitive it's unfair to regard points total in comparison to previous years in the same way.

Some people may only be interested in what Everton do, but ignoring the bigger picture and not factoring in the changing financial landscape of the premier league and how it impacts on all clubs is a bit naive.

 

[bluewally]

Okay, so that's taking the whole of the season into account.

How about going on recent form? For the issue of fairness, let's do it from the turn of the year as that can be identified as a definite 'half-way point' in the season?

Our recent form, since the turn of the year, in the league.

DDDLWWL

Compare that with the teams up to 5th, and down to 14th (So I'd say within touching distance either way)

Man Utd - WDWLWDL
Sotton - LWWWDWW
West Ham - WWLDWLD
Liverpool - LDLWLDW
Watford - LLLWDLW
Stoke - LWDLLLW
Chelsea - WDDWDDW
Palace - LLLLLDL
WBA - WDLDDLW

To me, that shows that we have just as much chance of being able to finish higher than we are now, based on our recent form.

Yup 9 points out of 21 in those games thats 42% of the points on offer

so out of our 36 possible that form would give us 15 not 16 so I'll refine my estimate down to 50