Roberto Martinez discussion

[maccavennie]

It's a really tightly contested league this year, that's all you can say really.

No we're not flying but our current form is fine. The sky isn't falling like some posts may suggest.

True mate. I've been sitting on the fence a long time with our Boberto, he does great stuff and then does clueless stuff to counter my optimism. A few have mentioned lately that we have to expect inconsistency due to their age, which is true and something I need to take on board a bit more I think. I'm so desperate to see this team succeed for fear of it splitting up before the fun has begun that even a draw feels like a defeat.

End of the day, we are in December and we have lost to City ( tight game for 50 odd minutes ), Utd ( that was a write off and didnt matter due to the passing of the great Howard Kendall ) and Arsenal away where we should have got a point imo.

My main gripe is the sitting off, poor concentration ( happened against Sunderland but we didn't get punished, happened against Bournemouth and we did ) but as mentioned it's a young group.

Also I must add our back line has had to chop and change all season. Our strongest back 4 haven't played 1 game together yet this season ( Coleman, Stones,Jags and Baines ). We've had to rely on kids like Browning and Galloway, Mori coming in and hitting the ground running.

Lots to look forward to. Not amazing by any means but there certainly a chance we can achieve something this season.

For all I give Martinez stick, he's doing his best,he's doing it his way and sticking to what he believes in. Most importantly, he loves this club and I really do hope he is a success and success for me would be winning a trophy or 2 and qualifying for the CL during his tenure because our squad have it within them to achieve both targets imo

 

[ianefc]

Why have you only included 52 games in your sample there? Why would you ignore all the other ones?

I have included the last 52 as that was the start of last season. You can choose where you want to start your analysis of our league results, I'm not here to tell you anything I'm offering my opinion, and what it is based on, nothing more or less mate.


I started at the start of last season as i'm convinced in the years to come that his first will look like an anomaly, although it would be handy if I were wrong.

 

[Connor]

True mate. I've been sitting on the fence a long time with our Boberto, he does great stuff and then does clueless stuff to counter my optimism. A few have mentioned lately that we have to expect inconsistency due to their age, which is true and something I need to take on board a bit more I think. I'm so desperate to see this team succeed for fear of it splitting up before the fun has begun that even a draw feels like a defeat.

End of the day, we are in December and we have lost to City ( tight game for 50 odd minutes ), Utd ( that was a write off and didnt matter due to the passing of the great Howard Kendall ) and Arsenal away where we should have got a point imo.

My main gripe is the sitting off, poor concentration ( happened against Sunderland but we didn't get punished, happened against Bournemouth and we did ) but as mentioned it's a young group.

Also I must add our back line has had to chop and change all season. Our strongest back 4 haven't played 1 game together yet this season ( Coleman, Stones,Jags and Baines ). We've had to rely on kids like Browning and Galloway, Mori coming in and hitting the ground running.

Lots to look forward to. Not amazing by any means but there certainly a chance we can achieve something this season.

For all I give Martinez stick, he's doing his best,he's doing it his way and sticking to what he believes in. Most importantly, he loves this club and I really do hope he is a success and success for me would be winning a trophy or 2 and qualifying for the CL because our squad have it within them to achieve both targets imo

Don't think you've got anything wrong here mate, all very good points that I agree with.

For me it comes down to youth as the biggest factor, especially in concentration. We have talented young players but they're lads who have had it easy coming up (maybe expect Barkley's injuries) but they know they're better than a majority of the teams they play so they expect to cruise. Just look at bournemouth, as you said, they sat off thinking the game was over. We didn't have to get out of second gear for the first 45 and then we got punished.

That's the thing though with having young lads. We I think we have to, or at least acknowledge that they're talented and they can produce big things but they're going to make mistakes and for a potential long-term benefit, to me that is fine.

I don't mind Barkley getting frustrated that his pass has gone awry or Lukaku complaining that he hasn't got the ball at the right time.

I do agree though that I want to see Martinez lift trophies with this group. Realistically like, that has to be this season because who knows what's going to happen if Stones, Coleman, Barkley, McCarthy, Lukaku and Gerri (if given the chance) do at the Euros. We could see a huge dismantling or the start of what has to the potential to be, a very successful era under Martinez.

 

[maccavennie]

Don't think you've got anything wrong here mate, all very good points that I agree with.

For me it comes down to youth as the biggest factor, especially in concentration. We have talented young players but they're lads who have had it easy coming up (maybe expect Barkley's injuries) but they know they're better than a majority of the teams they play so they expect to cruise. Just look at bournemouth, as you said, they sat off thinking the game was over. We didn't have to get out of second gear for the first 45 and then we got punished.

That's the thing though with having young lads. We I think we have to, or at least acknowledge that they're talented and they can produce big things but they're going to make mistakes and for a potential long-term benefit, to me that is fine.

I don't mind Barkley getting frustrated that his pass has gone awry or Lukaku complaining that he hasn't got the ball at the right time.

I do agree though that I want to see Martinez lift trophies with this group. Realistically like, that has to be this season because who knows what's going to happen if Stones, Coleman, Barkley, McCarthy, Lukaku and Gerri (if given the chance) do at the Euros. We could see a huge dismantling or the start of what has to the potential to be, a very successful era under Martinez.

Yep agree with all that mate. Don't want to set deadlines but u get the sense we need to do something big so the likes of Stones, Lukaku see their future with us for a couple of seasons. No matter how good Barkley gets I actually worry about him the least, I feel he will be with us for life I really do. I might be totally wrong on that but my instinct tells me he's very happy at Everton and fancies his chances of doing something at us and making a name for himself for Everton.

Deulofeu I'm just enjoying every game he plays tbh, that's the type of player that as an Everton fan you want to see. Lukaku is writing his own chapter in Evertons scoring records as well. We've got some quality players, big players who can win us the big games. They just need to believe,as do we and not be so worried about facing the likes of City or the RS in a cup. Sooner or later our day will come where everything falls into place for us for a change.

 

[paulbefc]

I have included the last 52 as that was the start of last season. You can choose where you want to start your analysis of our league results, I'm not here to tell you anything I'm offering my opinion, and what it is based on, nothing more or less mate.


I started at the start of last season as i'm convinced in the years to come that his first will look like an anomaly, although it would be handy if I were wrong.

That stat is completely useless however you look at it. Why base your "opinion" on that? There's no point choosing to focus on a really bad season to make some kind of point and intentionally ignoring a really good one. It's a fallacy.

There is infinitely more reason to believe that last season was an anomaly as circumstances are hugely different and we're greatly improved this season.

 

[Connor]

Yep agree with all that mate. Don't want to set deadlines but u get the sense we need to do something big so the likes of Stones, Lukaku see their future with us for a couple of seasons. No matter how good Barkley gets I actually worry about him the least, I feel he will be with us for life I really do. I might be totally wrong on that but my instinct tells me he's very happy at Everton and fancies his chances of doing something at us and making a name for himself for Everton.

Deulofeu I'm just enjoying every game he plays tbh, that's the type of player that as an Everton fan you want to see. Lukaku is writing his own chapter in Evertons scoring records as well. We've got some quality players, big players who can win us the big games. They just need to believe,as do we and not be so worried about facing the likes of City or the RS in a cup. Sooner or later our day will come where everything falls into place for us for a change.

Don't think I've ever been more excited to go the match just to, more or less, see how he plays.

Masterstroke from Martinez to pull him back here

 

[Titus Bramble]

Until the season has finished, league placings are pretty much irrelevant imo. What matters is how close/far away from our rivals we are in terms of points. We could lose this weekend and drop places but be no further away from the top of the league in terms of points. We're 4 points off 5th and 6 off 4th. 4th is very much a long shot, but 5th is achievable and we are in the mix.

As for stats, they can be presented differently to suit a particular argument. Not winning 67% of our last 52 league games doesn't sound good. 45% of wins of his entire Everton career does sound good.

 

[ianefc]

That stat is completely useless however you look at it. Why base your "opinion" on that? There's no point choosing to focus on a really bad season to make some kind of point and intentionally ignoring a really good one. It's a fallacy.

There is infinitely more reason to believe that last season was an anomaly as circumstances are hugely different and we're greatly improved this season.

in the most basic of terms the first season we were 5th last we were 11th we are currently 9th yet your telling me the season we are only 2 places away from as appose 4 is the fallacy? OK then, but seriously their is no point in replying as the only thing that will convince me is when he improves his win ratio, even if we are talking this season alone its just over 33% 5 in 14, TBH unless you're happy then fair enough, it's not my job to tell you that you shouldn't be happy with a win ratio of just over 33% this season just under 33% last season and around 33% for the last 18 months.

 

[Connor]

in the most basic of terms the first season we were 5th last we were 11th we are currently 9th yet your telling me the season we are only 2 places away from as appose 4 is the fallacy? OK then, but seriously their is no point in replying as the only thing that will convince me is when he improves his win ratio, even if we are talking this season alone its just over 33% 5 in 14, TBH unless you're happy then fair enough, it's not my job to tell you that you shouldn't be happy with a win ratio of just over 33% this season just under 33% last season and around 33% for the last 18 months.

Going on about win percentages now like Tim Sherwood.

Just enjoy the footy. That's what it's meant to be about

 

[ianefc]

Going on about win percentages now like Tim Sherwood.

Just enjoy the footy. That's what it's meant to be about

I'm desperate to. See the Villa game thread, happy as a pig in poo, last weekend not so much.

 

[paulbefc]

in the most basic of terms the first season we were 5th last we were 11th we are currently 9th yet your telling me the season we are only 2 places away from as appose 4 is the fallacy? OK then, but seriously their is no point in replying as the only thing that will convince me is when he improves his win ratio, even if we are talking this season alone its just over 33% 5 in 14, TBH unless you're happy then fair enough, it's not my job to tell you that you shouldn't be happy with a win ratio of just over 33% this season just under 33% last season and around 33% for the last 18 months.

No, I said quite clearly that ignoring half the games we've had under Martinez to come up with a stat that supports your position is a fallacy. It is. A fallacy of incomplete evidence.

I don't know why anyone would insist on cherry-picking really weak points and ignore everything else in order to feel bad about Everton.

 

[ianefc]

No, I said quite clearly that ignoring half the games we've had under Martinez to come up with a stat that supports your position is a fallacy. It is. A fallacy of incomplete evidence.

I don't know why anyone would insist on cherry-picking really weak points and ignore everything else in order to feel bad about Everton.

honestly mate its up to you, go with Martinez being amazing or whatever, I'll say we have gone from 5th to 11th to 9th having won just over a third this season. lets hope you're right.

 

[hullefc]

True mate. I've been sitting on the fence a long time with our Boberto, he does great stuff and then does clueless stuff to counter my optimism. A few have mentioned lately that we have to expect inconsistency due to their age, which is true and something I need to take on board a bit more I think. I'm so desperate to see this team succeed for fear of it splitting up before the fun has begun that even a draw feels like a defeat.

End of the day, we are in December and we have lost to City ( tight game for 50 odd minutes ), Utd ( that was a write off and didnt matter due to the passing of the great Howard Kendall ) and Arsenal away where we should have got a point imo.

My main gripe is the sitting off, poor concentration ( happened against Sunderland but we didn't get punished, happened against Bournemouth and we did ) but as mentioned it's a young group.

Also I must add our back line has had to chop and change all season. Our strongest back 4 haven't played 1 game together yet this season ( Coleman, Stones,Jags and Baines ). We've had to rely on kids like Browning and Galloway, Mori coming in and hitting the ground running.

Lots to look forward to. Not amazing by any means but there certainly a chance we can achieve something this season.

For all I give Martinez stick, he's doing his best,he's doing it his way and sticking to what he believes in. Most importantly, he loves this club and I really do hope he is a success and success for me would be winning a trophy or 2 and qualifying for the CL during his tenure because our squad have it within them to achieve both targets imo

A very reasoned post. If I may add one thing. With this team I don't fear playing anyone and I think the players are getting that way.

 

[Carlito]

Tbf to Moyes some of his football was very entertaining, especially Baines/Pienaar/Fellaini for example. The "defend for your lives" bits weren't enjoyable as such but I wouldn't describe them as dull either!

Yeah, the brand of football wasn't really a problem until the team that did well in Europe and finished 6th, 5th and 5th fell apart in 2009. From then it was mostly dire until the January 2012 window, but I suppose that's what happens when a board doesn't fund a single transfer for three years.

I suppose the loons perpetuating the myth that Moyes never played decent footy used to agree with Wenger and the London journos when they'd accuse our bully boy midfielder of Arteta, Pienaar and Osman of kicking their way to immoral victories.

 

[maccavennie]

A very reasoned post. If I may add one thing. With this team I don't fear playing anyone and I think the players are getting that way.

I think you are right about the players feeling that. I think there's always been a cloud over the players where it's drilled into them that we "punch above our weight". I've got a feeling the likes of Lukaku, Barkley, Del, Stones and Galloway don't give a flying one about the opposition. I've loved Galloway for his blunt talks about not fearing anyone and they should fear us, he's a kid but he's got balls like cannon balls, he gets it, he's playing for Everton football club and he understands it. The rest of them must feel the same mate.