Roberto Martinez discussion

[ianefc]

Davek knows that all managers deserve time just like Roberto got in his second season. Apart from Moyes of course. He deserved less than a season at Sociedad.

He was proven a hypocrite a long while ago, that's an old argument. For example we can go 12 games without a win or lose all 4 festive fixtures and that shouldn't be moaned about the minute we beat the bottom two by handsome gaps. 'lets all jump on the goading train'

 

[davek]

Well is it not plausible that the reason I didn't think he was up to the job is now being proven with his masterful 17 wins in the last 52 PL games

Yet again no targets.

I'm not sure what type of job you have, but I doubt you are never set targets, just like all of us, why is Martinez exempt? is is simply because you're the polar opposite to me and you were desperate to have hime here and are now set on him being the right man without a second thought of where the club is going?

Martinez with allways be the right man with you as lonag as you set him not targets as he simply can't fail.

He has the best win % of any recent Everton manager.

Next.

 

[ianefc]

He has the best win % of any recent Everton manager.

Next.

No next about it, the more our form continues the more his first season looks like a one off


No, repeat, NO back to back wins in 8 months

Next

 

[Deleted member 24970]

He has the best win % of any recent Everton manager.

Next.

To be fair mate most recent only includes Moyes

 

[ianefc]

He has the best win % of any recent Everton manager.

Next.

And still no Targets

Bottler, just like you criticised Moyes for.

No bottle what so ever.

 

[Saint Domingo]

Well is it not plausible that the reason I didn't think he was up to the job is now being proven with his masterful 17 wins in the last 52 PL games

Yet again no targets.

I'm not sure what type of job you have, but I doubt you are never set targets, just like all of us, why is Martinez exempt? is is simply because you're the polar opposite to me and you were desperate to have hime here and are now set on him being the right man without a second thought of where the club is going?

Martinez with allways be the right man with you as lonag as you set him not targets as he simply can't fail.

Got a fair point @davek wjst is the minimum acceptable target you would take before your opinion changed? If Martinez finished ninth this season with no trophies would you be happy? What if he replicated it the season after?

I've seen the argument before that top ten would be acceptable because it's an improvement on last year but that is a problem of his own making and was not indicative of our true standing in the league. Martinez got the best parts of a top 7 squad. The only real old players such as Distin Osman Pienaar he has continued to use and has chosen to phase out or replace. The core of it Howard, Coleman, Jagielka, Heitinga, Stones, Baines, Oviedo, Garbutt, Gibson, Barkley, Mirallas, Naismith, Fellaini, Anichebe, Jelavic he has kept or purposefully moved on. It's not as though half the squad retired en masse. He's arguably kept the best of that squad and supplemented it with world class players in Lukaku Deulofeu and others like Barry Mori Lennon Besic McCarthy Kone.

So why has the bar changed from our position as a top 7 side? The only logic is that the players he brought in are not as good as those that left (highly unlikely). Or that Martinez has not performed with enough consistency to get the talent out of these players regularly enough.

Of course I'm hoping we come 4th-7th and have a good cup run, but if neither happens what is your breaking point?

 

[ianefc]

Got a fair point @davek wjst is the minimum acceptable target you would take before your opinion changed? If Martinez finished ninth this season with no trophies would you be happy? What if he replicated it the season after?

I've seen the argument before that top ten would be acceptable because it's an improvement on last year but that is a problem of his own making and was not indicative of our true standing in the league. Martinez got the best parts of a top 7 squad. The only real old players such as Distin Osman Pienaar he has continued to use and has chosen to phase out or replace. The core of it Howard, Coleman, Jagielka, Heitinga, Stones, Baines, Oviedo, Garbutt, Gibson, Barkley, Mirallas, Naismith, Fellaini, Anichebe, Jelavic he has kept or purposefully moved on. It's not as though half the squad retired en masse. He's arguably kept the best of that squad and supplemented it with world class players in Lukaku Deulofeu and others like Barry Mori Lennon Besic McCarthy Kone.

So why has the bar changed from our position as a top 7 side? The only logic is that the players he brought in are not as good as those that left (highly unlikely). Or that Martinez has not performed with enough consistency to get the talent out of these players regularly enough.

Of course I'm hoping we come 4th-7th and have a good cup run, but if neither happens what is your breaking point?

Because we play breathtaking football see Sunderland and Villa (forget West Ham, Arsenal, UTD, Bournemouth, Watford, Liverpool and many other games in the last season and a half)

 

[davek]

I am one of the more vocal 'i think he can improve' contributors, i only popped back in here because i forgot to ask were do you think martinez should be finishing ? We always debated the 4-4-2 or 4-5-1 formations, should he play more 'moyes football' or more risky etc, but we used to say moyes should be aiming for top 4 but more likely 5th. Martinez however is building solid foundations with more excitement than the previous regime, therefore should martinez be aiming top 4 or less ? I think what is forgotten is that moyes did inherit a underachieving/ageing squad too.

I've nailed my colours to the mast on this already: a top 7 finish/60+ point league performance, and a good run in one of the cups constitutes targets well and truly met in a season where the restructuring of the squad is taking place in a major way.

 

[Khalekan]

Moyes would have Lukaku pulling his arse out running the flanks

Del wouldn't get a look in, in fact he would never have signed for the dinosaur

Osman would be still a first choice midfielder along side Naismith

Hhhhhhhhooooooooooffffffffff

I don't think we would have ever had Lukaku if Moyes was still here.

Imaginary Moyes starting XI.

Howard

Seamus, Jags, Evans, Baines

Fletcher, Fellaini

Mirallas, Ossie, Naismith

Victor.....(or maybe Jelly)

 

[davek]

Not running Everton down, the players aren't fit enough which would explain why the looked so 'leggy' post 60 minutes on satuday despite having the previous week free, and the wrong in game selections were chosen with regard subs, A blind man could see that Kone needed a break, thats not even me calling him either, he was fine in the first half, but under the cosh on Sautrday the most important thing (Everton) needed some pressure taking off us, but he didn't and the rest is history.

Yes, 'the rest is history'. Oh the terrible legacy of the 3-3 away defeat.

Lol.

 

[Carlito]

Yeah, it's just Deulofeu. Barkley hasn't improved, and neither has there been the flowering of a potent partnership between Kone and Lukaku. And Barry and McCarthy are performing just as they were last season; and we haven't strengthened at all in terms of central defensive options and seen the emergence of Galloway as a first team regular.

Just re-signing Deulofeu has done the trick. Defo.

It amazes me that you denigrate the style and potency of your own team. While Spurs have stunk the place out until recently with a load of tosh passed off as 'pressing football' they're feted as a 'purist' football team, while our team has been consistently producing the best attacking football in the league this season. I make no excuses for stating that, and you shouldn't either.

Take Deulofeu out and they go back to huffing and puffing thirty yards from the opposition goal. No one else in the side is looking to play passes like the one which led to Lukaku's goal against Bournemouth, or the defence-splitter that put him through against Sunderland.

He's the difference, and Martinez deserves credit for the faith he's shown in him.

What's wrong with that?

 

[davek]

To be fair mate most recent only includes Moyes

...the utter bellend most of these fair weather posters want re-hired.

 

[ianefc]

Yes, 'the rest is history'. Oh the terrible legacy of the 3-3 away defeat.

Lol.

Keep trying pal, not biting.

It will be hard for you to understand why Evertonians were dissapointed with the manor of the result. Proper fans with expectations of Everton, not the likes of yourself who will happily take 11th. I guarantee you're in the minority. Happy with 11th.

Dear me.

 

[Saint Domingo]

I don't think we would have ever had Lukaku if Moyes was still here.

Imaginary Moyes starting XI.

Howard

Seamus, Jags, Evans, Baines

Fletcher, Fellaini

Mirallas, Ossie, Naismith

Victor.....(or maybe Jelly)

Funny how everyone always predicts Moyes would have bought all these United rejects that play for West Brom when actually his last signing for the club was Stones, he's responsible for our first choice back 5 and our highest goal scorers in the last two seasons after Lukaku are Mirallas and Naismith. But yeah, let's rewrite history and pretend he stocked the team with players not good enough for West Brom. Let's also ignore that Martinez was actually the only manager who tried to buy Evans as well.

 

[davek]

And still no Targets

Bottler, just like you criticised Moyes for.

No bottle what so ever.

I've stated targets on here all season long...oh, that's right I forgot...you wouldn't have read anyone's 'target's' because you only post on here when Everton lose or get a 3-3 defeat. Thankfully not often then.