upthetoffees
Player Valuation: £8m
Dutch Ozil
Ozil quits Germany
- Thread starter Mikey_Fitzgerald
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Billy Dean
Player Valuation: £70m
Not as cowardly as avoiding paying your taxes.
Billy Dean
Player Valuation: £70m
On the other hand Lothar Matthäus is a good solid Christian so he's allowed to pose with unpopular presidents
dholliday
deconstructed rep
It's the World Cup...in Russia...Putin is the Russian President and Lothar is an official FIFA Legend, that's why he's standing next to the boss of FIFA in that picture.
False equivalency, we call that. The Özil situation is colourful enough without bringing false equivalencies into it.
You know who else posed with Putin during the World Cup? Everyone! Including Rio Ferdinand.
Islam is not a concern for Germany ffs.
Concern for Islam is a concern for Germans.
Concern for Islam is a concern for Germans.
Billy Dean
Player Valuation: £70m
I don't care who poses with Putin or Erdogan or whoever else for that matter. Just pointing out that Lothar doesn't seem to be getting as hard a time about posing with Putin as Ozil and Gundogan did for posing with Erdogan.
dholliday
deconstructed rep
That's like me saying the American Far Right is not a concern for USA...from my vantage point from a different continent never having even been there.
And I've already explained why. Was Erdogan hosting a World Cup at the time?
Özil posing with Erdogan was an opening of a can of worms. If you understand Germany & Turkey on an even basic level you would get this. That's not to say he was right or wrong in doing so, that's a separate argument. It's recognising the can-of-worms aspect. He's a rich footballer with millions of fans, there's a responsibility there to recognise what are can-of-worms situations. Erdogan's public comments about the Muslim-Turkish in Germany are eye-opening to say the least. I'm assuming you have no idea about those either.
World Cup legends posing among many thousands of others with the Head of State of the World Cup host nation is a million miles away.
It's not healthy to rely on false equivalencies. The problem is, you're not alone. Matthäus has to publicly explain why he's in some pictures with Putin when it should be obvious.
I don't get why some people feel the need to bring false arguments into it. Do you want more division? More anger? I already said there's enough ammo about to make a good case Özil was unfairly villified (which is my position). No need to declare a holy war, that furthers division to an already divisive situation:
Well done swerving the point. If there is a true concern for Islam in Germany (or any nation) then the concern really is about those concerned.
Painting a religion and those who follow it with a wide brush is ignorant, intollerant, and frankly offensive. Probably as offensive as me saying Germany should be ashamed of how Ozil was treated...or maybe that's exactly why I said it that way.
*notes that Holliday was offended by me painting Germans with a wide brush
dholliday
deconstructed rep
eh?
Honestly not following your point. Read up on Erdogan and his comments about Muslims in Germany over the years and you'll find it is he who is painting with a wide brush, which is often gleefully accepted. It's essential to know the Erdogan-factor if you genuinely want to understand the Özil situation a little better.
You talking about his 'future of Europe' comments? He's not wrong to inspire those who have been treated like second class citizens because of their minority status. There is a lot to not like about that guy but for me that is not one of them.
I back Ozil in this debate. He's just being used as a whipping boy for shady reasons.
dholliday
deconstructed rep
Who's been treated like second class citizens? Any proof? There's no such thing in Germany. Everyone gets the same status.
Yes, he's indeed very inspiring:
Erdogan urges German Turks not to integrate with Germany
Erdogan calls Merkel a Nazi fascist
Erdogan calls on Turkish families in Europe to have five children to increase the Muslim population in the EU
President Erdogan vows to behead 'traitors' on first anniversary of failed Turkey coup
Erdogan Urges German Turks To Vote Against ‘Enemies,’ Including Angela Merkel
The above is also for @Billy Dean
So if you're a famous German national of Turkish origin and you're obviously aware of the above and the fine-balance of German/Turk relations you may be ill-advised to do a photo-op with Erdogan.
I know many German-Turks, and most support Erdogan. Polls support this too. I also know many German-Turks are good fine people who treat others well, but they're riding on a bad populist wave.
The entire world seems to be in the mood for division. I don't think we can blame internet culture, as history shows us we've been here before. Maybe it's human nature, the true progressives like myself (who fight against division) are in the minority. Our sense of fairness & logic isn't loud enough to stand out.
In the other corner you've got bad loudmouths like Hoeneß, the tabloids & hater fans stirring the pot to their taste. Also divisive.
The Özil situation shines a light in many directions...
Ozil is being treated as a second class citizen by your people and it's why he quit. How are you missing that?
dholliday
deconstructed rep
Now you're just being silly. At least, I hope you are.
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