Moyes - should he stay or should he go?

[maccavennie]

Dibling £35mil to £40mil
Aznou £8.6mil (?)
Rohl £20mil
Travers £4mil
Barry £27.5mil

Why did he sign them?

£95.1mil with Dibling potentially taking that to £101.1mil.

I think its obvious that with better recruitment we would have walked to 6th place. The worst 2 signings and by some distance are Barry who doesn't look like a footballer and Dibling where I just don't see where he fits in to the system. 50-60m completely wasted and they're both now probably only worth half of what we paid.

 

[Zatara]

It's ironic that the conservative Moyes who is risk-averse is the choice of conservatives who are risk-averse.

Replacing him will be a risk - but staying with him means we'll be having the very same conversations this time next year having failed in another derby and been eliminated from both domestic cups.

In other words, he has to be replaced and we have to get the replacement right. I wouldn't back Kinnear and co to do that and I remain unconvinced that the owners want anything more than stability. But the idea that we can achieve something serious with Moyes is for the birds. We've had 14 years of coming up short. Why would Year 15 be different?

Not a single club above us would hire him.

Goodbye. Thank you for the stability but your treatment of young players and boring football is dated.

I appreciate the stability he brought to our club but he clearly is still a dinosaur in his thinking about young players and tactics in general. Nothing personal against the dude, but think we need someone younger and more willing to try something new and not be so stagnant.

We should be excited about younger players getting into the 11 next season.

Armstrong, Dibling, Aznou & Iroegbunam shouldnt be far away at this point if all had regular minutes this season.

Yet instead

No problem, weve signed Merlin Rohl

 

[davek]

Moyes' statement a week or two ago that [paraphrasing] 'Everton are different. I get the feeling we're a club that takes a while to achieve success - it wont happen overnight': that's the type of self-preserving tosh that's bamboozled a core of Everton fans. Utter tripe that the gullible wolf down them.

I for one have seen success at Everton and I can tell you without a shadow of a doubt that in order get back into the elite we need:

A/ massive wealth to get us the quantum leap we need (no Moshiri or TFG level investor can do it).

B/ a manager who knows wtf he's doing as a coach and tactician and surrounds himself with experts and not nodding dogs like Irvine and McKinlay.

We're miles off. But hiring a coach who can get us high profile wins against local rivals and a cup should be in our grasp if we act boldly.

Moyes has taken the piss for 12 years here. He's proven beyond doubt he cant handle this club beyond stabilisation. He's a man out of time and out of his depth.

No doubt we'll get a couple of away wins and some will be saying we're lucky to have him, but he will never be the manager for us. It's a terrible match up: one of the most successful and best supported teams in England and a limited manager who in clutch games is utterly clueless.

 

[Gwladysstreetlad]

Don't dispute it.

I think you seemingly in a panic over your comfort blanket in Moyes and dismissing any suggestions on alternatives is more the issue here.

I haven't dismissed any other suggestions. Just Glasner because I sincerely believe that even if we managed to get him, he'd end up as a second Koeman. I'm open to further suggestions even though I don't think Moyes will go.

 

[mccole]

If you offered me Iraola now, I'd take him.

I think Moyes will eventually get to his ceiling with the club within 6 months.

The summer would be perfect because he could swap Everton for Celtic or Scotland boss.

 

[Zatara]

Anyone downplaying Iraola clearly hasn't watched Bournemouth play.

They might not know the likes of Alex Scott, Rayan, Jimenez, Truffert, or Kroupi, but don't let that fool you. They might not look like world-beaters on the team sheet, but they're playing us off the park because they actually have a clear structure.

Meanwhile, we’re still stuck over-relying on our starting XI and acting like the world’s ending the moment one of them's sidelined.

The young players they bring in are developed by Iraola.

They are then turned into top quality and sold.

He then does the same every window.

Imagine what he could do for a side that didnt sell them?

He could build something super.

 

[Zatara]

I think its obvious that with better recruitment we would have walked to 6th place. The worst 2 signings and by some distance are Barry who doesn't look like a footballer and Dibling where I just don't see where he fits in to the system. 50-60m completely wasted and they're both now probably only worth half of what we paid.

At this point, im not particularly questioning the recruitment.

I'm questioning the managers lack of development for ANY players.

Garner said that he challenged himself to make this a make or break season.

Who has he improved?

 

[maccavennie]

At this point, im not particularly questioning the recruitment.

I'm questioning the managers lack of development for ANY players.

Garner said that he challenged himself to make this a make or break season.

Who has he improved?

I think Jake (once in his proper position consistently) will say Moyes has improved. He's definitely tried to improve Mykolenko getting forward a bit more. I think Keane has had his best season for us. Garner might have challenged himself but I think he's definitely been taken out of his shell more due to Moyes. KDH speaks highly of him

But for all of the above, we've seen Alcaraz given little to no chance, Rohl bombed from the team after a great Villa away effort (pretty much same thing has happened with Harrison). We've seen nothing of Aznou, few moments from Dibling who just looks a really poor signing to me and the less.said about Moyes and buying dud forwards the better.

Its a mixed bag. For the first time in a long time we're well away from the relegation spots and still in the hunt for Europe. But I think not making Europe at this stage would have to be seen as a failure as we wouldnt normally get seasons where the likes of Newcastle, Spurs, Chelsea have looked so poor.

Any kind of Europe and he deserves credit and will have that in the bank. Not making Europe and I think there will need to be long conversations about his contract, are they happy for him to see out next season and what are we going to do about the disconnect in recruitment

 

[barneygumble]

Years of knocking us down, has completely made the core of fans just happy to be steady.

I get it, after the past few years. But I just dont see how hes the answer going forward.

Does he care for the club, yes. But theres just an element of watering down expectations. Villa, Newcastle made CL within 18 months of takeovers and correct structure.

Ive enjoyed the past few weeks, but the reality is, when it comes to the black and white, and the ink dries we've dropped points this season to all of the bottom 4.

At home we've failed to win against

West Ham, Spurs, Brentford, Bournemouth, Newcastle, Wolves, Leeds.

Convert 2 of those to wins, and were a nap for europe.

Am I thankful, yes. Did I want him, no? Should this be the conversation? Perhaps? But ultimately its 5 cup finals for Moyes here, because Europe was there for the taking and now we've got 5 very tough games to go to make it happen.

 

[Swartzy]

Anyone downplaying Iraola clearly hasn't watched Bournemouth play.

They might not know the likes of Alex Scott, Rayan, Jimenez, Truffert, or Kroupi, but don't let that fool you. They might not look like world-beaters on the team sheet, but they're playing us off the park because they actually have a clear structure.

Meanwhile, we’re still stuck over-relying on our starting XI and acting like the world’s ending the moment one of them's sidelined.

Who is downplaying Iraola ? The bloke has done a brilliant job at a club completely set up for his coaching style.

You bring him in, you have to rip up our playbook and start again, Which isn't always a bad thing but you will need more patience then you have now.
And the way this Forum plays out, not sure you can carry that patience.

Iraola is a very good player coach, I think his biggest trouble and what would be his downfall at the so called bigger clubs is him not being able to handle big ego's..
off the field he is very quiet and doesn't really interact with the players..

We buy into a coach like him, we buy into a project. You will need patience, which would more then likely be going backwards before forwards.
To keep him, you can't fall into a buy to sell project, he wont accept that and We wouldn't accept that..

Iraola works, because Bournemouth work for him.
We couldn't be further away from a club run like Bournemouth..

He walks into our club and he's walking into a totally different Universe.

I like his style, but can you handle the patience that will come with it..

 

[Sadken]

Harsh thread this, just think we could have been in the Championship with Dyche, Moyes doesn't get enough credit for what he's done imo.
I don't think he wants to stay longer than this contract anyway.
We've had a mixed season performance wise & should have won yesterday.

No idea who I want next, so many are weak in comparison, who can handle our club?

I think the rangers manager is one to keep an eye on.

 

[Matthew mcdonnell]

He probably has the same amount of wins against Liverpool than Moyes has.

1 more than moyes in 35 less games

 

[Zatara]

Who is downplaying Iraola ? The bloke has done a brilliant job at a club completely set up for his coaching style.

You bring him in, you have to rip up our playbook and start again, Which isn't always a bad thing but you will need more patience then you have now.
And the way this Forum plays out, not sure you can carry that patience.

Iraola is a very good player coach, I think his biggest trouble and what would be his downfall at the so called bigger clubs is him not being able to handle big ego's..
off the field he is very quiet and doesn't really interact with the players..

We buy into a coach like him, we buy into a project. You will need patience, which would more then likely be going backwards before forwards.
To keep him, you can't fall into a buy to sell project, he wont accept that and We wouldn't accept that..

Iraola works, because Bournemouth work for him.
We couldn't be further away from a club run like Bournemouth..

He walks into our club and he's walking into a totally different Universe.

I like his style, but can you handle the patience that will come with it..

If Moyes had said at the beginning of the season that he'd be integrating the young players.

If we were seeing youth development

If we were sat in 13th.

No problem

Bring me Iraola.

 

[MACCA75]

Not a single club above us would hire him.





We should be excited about younger players getting into the 11 next season.

Armstrong, Dibling, Aznou & Iroegbunam shouldnt be far away at this point if all had regular minutes this season.

Yet instead

No problem, weve signed Merlin Rohl

Why should we ‘be excited’ about younger players getting into the 11 next season?

Doesn’t guarantee anything in terms of performance, probably weakens it based on what we have seen from these players so far.

 

[Fonzy]

He'd ditch us within a year. And you'd all be calling for him to be placed inside a wickerman long before that after his first bad result anyway.

Why would he ditch us? Because he has’t signed a new deal at Palace!

Would you sign a deal at palace…that board will sell his best players as thats how clubs like that operate.

Plus IF he ditches us after a year he’d have had a hell of year to attract the interest

But yeah i mean lets all look forward to more early cup exits, sh1ting the derby and mid table finishes under moyes & most importantly NO trophies

Clever plan mate