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zimblue
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4-5-1 is not a defensive formation as long as you have midfielders getting forward and scoring goals. But you need a big man up there to take the pressure off.. These days a strikers main role is not to score goals but to create space for others to do so. Obviously if he can knock in a few thats a bonus.
Carlton Cole?
Carlton Cole?
bluebastardo
Player Valuation: £40m
Bruce, I think Chelsea don't get the credit they deserve for some of their football.
At times this season, they've been easily as good as Arsenal in the 'beautiful game' stakes. They attack all over the field, and don't rely on a first 11 to be able to do this. As good as Barca are, I don't think they would win the Prem.
Namdrater
Player Valuation: £15m
I think you are being way too harsh.
Andy Johnson got a decent return in his first season, he didnt take much penalties and ever since he was accused of diving he was fouled 100 times in the box and never awarded a penalty. He was VERY important to us in his first season.
Yakubu and Saha were both excellent buys - I dont buy the whole "Saha's always injured, Saha wont last long" its the same [Poor language removed] people said when he first arrived and it was clear from the start that he was absolute quality. Yakubus just got off a massive injury and he was pumping them in for fun before then, he wont just suddenly be incredible again and it could possibly just be a poor run of form which is possible with any player.
Jo had a decent return last season, he hasnt been the greatest but he's on loan and he's backup so I dont expect him to be smashing them in.
Beatties the only one who was really unsuccessful.
The pattern has been improving the position every year, from Beattie to Johnson to Yak to Saha. More funds = better players, but I still could never agree that Moyes has been [Poor language removed] at finding strikers.
Andy Johnson got a decent return in his first season, he didnt take much penalties and ever since he was accused of diving he was fouled 100 times in the box and never awarded a penalty. He was VERY important to us in his first season.
Yakubu and Saha were both excellent buys - I dont buy the whole "Saha's always injured, Saha wont last long" its the same [Poor language removed] people said when he first arrived and it was clear from the start that he was absolute quality. Yakubus just got off a massive injury and he was pumping them in for fun before then, he wont just suddenly be incredible again and it could possibly just be a poor run of form which is possible with any player.
Jo had a decent return last season, he hasnt been the greatest but he's on loan and he's backup so I dont expect him to be smashing them in.
Beatties the only one who was really unsuccessful.
The pattern has been improving the position every year, from Beattie to Johnson to Yak to Saha. More funds = better players, but I still could never agree that Moyes has been [Poor language removed] at finding strikers.
bluebastardo
Player Valuation: £40m
For strikers to prosper, they need a good team.
No striker in the world can score goals on his own. The so called best are over rated, and the so called worst under rated.
It's all about the quality of football backing them up. That's why I really rate Bent and Defoe, and even Crouch.
No striker in the world can score goals on his own. The so called best are over rated, and the so called worst under rated.
It's all about the quality of football backing them up. That's why I really rate Bent and Defoe, and even Crouch.
The Yak and Saha are two of the best quality strikers in the league. You have to give Moyes selection of sitrikers context and view it as progression in quality. Its very harsh to say Bent and Johnson were failures - given the improvement and finishing positions in the league the seasons they played for us. Beattie was the victim of injurey and adding quality to the squad but he wasnt as bad as peole make out didnt he get 12 or something one seaosn for us. Brian McBride is also worht a shout and Jo got some goals under his belt last season too.
Cant think of many other teams who with our resources have signed better front players.
Cant think of many other teams who with our resources have signed better front players.
Winci
Player Valuation: £950k
I think Moyes record in strikers is actually very good. IMO we have one of the best strike force in the league when everyone is healthy. We've just been extremely unlucky with injuries. Just look at the group of strikers we have: Saha, Yakubu, Jo, Anichebe, Vaugahn. All of them have seen extended time off with injuries, except Jo.
All of them are really good strikers, but they have missed Arteta's presence on the pitch. He is our most creative player and without him our strikers have not gotten the services a striker normally need to score.
Also our system is not one where most strikers succed. If you look around europe there are not a whole lot of strikers we could realistically afford who could have the type of impact most of us, the fans, want to see.
a few of them we could realistically buy (next transfer window maybe) :
- Carlton Cole
- Marouane Chamakh
- Roman Pavlyuchenko
- Hugo Rodallega
- Darren Bent & Kenwyne Jones
- Andre Pierre Gignac
Again we can sign one of them, their tranfer values could range between 10m to 18m, so that could be our only signing
All of them are really good strikers, but they have missed Arteta's presence on the pitch. He is our most creative player and without him our strikers have not gotten the services a striker normally need to score.
Also our system is not one where most strikers succed. If you look around europe there are not a whole lot of strikers we could realistically afford who could have the type of impact most of us, the fans, want to see.
a few of them we could realistically buy (next transfer window maybe) :
- Carlton Cole
- Marouane Chamakh
- Roman Pavlyuchenko
- Hugo Rodallega
- Darren Bent & Kenwyne Jones
- Andre Pierre Gignac
Again we can sign one of them, their tranfer values could range between 10m to 18m, so that could be our only signing
Tennessee Blue Mike
Player Valuation: £50m
Saha and Yak are finishers.
Sadly this year this service to them hasn't been the greatest. Of course Yak has been on a extended injury sabatical but in better health he should be scoring in numbers again.
Sadly this year this service to them hasn't been the greatest. Of course Yak has been on a extended injury sabatical but in better health he should be scoring in numbers again.
EvertruvianMan
Player Valuation: £1.5m
This isn't vaulting - I just searched "Moyes Strikers" and this is as close to tops as I could be assed reading.
Was Moyes a victim of his own success?
Moyes brought Marcus Bent in for £450k, Cahill came in at the same time and Everton finished fourth. What a bit of business, what a finish, what a masterstroke. Bent ran the channels, held the ball up, bought us time and engineered space for Cahill to exploit - and exploit he did (Was it 15 league goals from a midfielder?)
The system worked, Carsley swept up and plugged the gaps when we were caught in possession, it was one up front (Bent) and we harassed other sides with numbers in the middle and closed them down to death. It was a revelation.
Was that the formula? Is that what Moyes stuck to? It worked once, it could work again - surely? And from then on Strikers were brought in and slowly their roles changed, from striking more regular than a box of swan matches players went off the boil and stopped producing the goods, even Yakubu - big reputation, loads of goals, turned up for us for a season then was looking to link play and utilise others instead of just looking for the finish. Johnson was busted with the Bent role because he wasnt as big and strong but was quicker and penalised as a diver. Beattie wasnt quick enough. Saha had the lot but was another that found himself much like Jelavic recently drifting to the left flank looking for the ball or to work space for an overlap.
Cottee was a poacher, that forward that knew his job was as close to their 6 yard box as he could stay onside for.
Beckford scored a few but wasn't top flight and had to use the flanks to try to get possession. Ask yourself - is the one endearing memory of Strikers under Moyes that of a player more often looking to come deep or work wide for the ball instead of sniffing out space to get on a cross in the middle or pressurizing the keeper or looking for the shoulder of the last defender.
Its said Keepers are a different player apart from all others, lunatics and odd characters (by comparrison) and that might be because their role is so unique because in a team game their job is so isolated. I put it to the forum that a striker has to be similar in mindset, being the pinnacle, the apex of the side and converting the culmination of the rest of the sides efforts. Under Moyes it seemed and more so with retrospect that strikers were another cog in the means to an end - an end that simply never came because the finisher didnt exist.
Was Moyes a victim of his own success?
Moyes brought Marcus Bent in for £450k, Cahill came in at the same time and Everton finished fourth. What a bit of business, what a finish, what a masterstroke. Bent ran the channels, held the ball up, bought us time and engineered space for Cahill to exploit - and exploit he did (Was it 15 league goals from a midfielder?)
The system worked, Carsley swept up and plugged the gaps when we were caught in possession, it was one up front (Bent) and we harassed other sides with numbers in the middle and closed them down to death. It was a revelation.
Was that the formula? Is that what Moyes stuck to? It worked once, it could work again - surely? And from then on Strikers were brought in and slowly their roles changed, from striking more regular than a box of swan matches players went off the boil and stopped producing the goods, even Yakubu - big reputation, loads of goals, turned up for us for a season then was looking to link play and utilise others instead of just looking for the finish. Johnson was busted with the Bent role because he wasnt as big and strong but was quicker and penalised as a diver. Beattie wasnt quick enough. Saha had the lot but was another that found himself much like Jelavic recently drifting to the left flank looking for the ball or to work space for an overlap.
Cottee was a poacher, that forward that knew his job was as close to their 6 yard box as he could stay onside for.
Beckford scored a few but wasn't top flight and had to use the flanks to try to get possession. Ask yourself - is the one endearing memory of Strikers under Moyes that of a player more often looking to come deep or work wide for the ball instead of sniffing out space to get on a cross in the middle or pressurizing the keeper or looking for the shoulder of the last defender.
Its said Keepers are a different player apart from all others, lunatics and odd characters (by comparrison) and that might be because their role is so unique because in a team game their job is so isolated. I put it to the forum that a striker has to be similar in mindset, being the pinnacle, the apex of the side and converting the culmination of the rest of the sides efforts. Under Moyes it seemed and more so with retrospect that strikers were another cog in the means to an end - an end that simply never came because the finisher didnt exist.
Michael Tsui
Player Valuation: £1.5m
Point is Martinez isn't that different from Moyes in respect of forwards. One hard-working forward looking for layoffs, one constantly on wide and stretches play, and another skillful but often defensively suspect player linking up the 2/3 midfielders to the other 2 forwards..
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