Moyes and youth

[Little Ralphy]

It's like with Duffy, it'd be interesting to see if all those advocating his inclusion have seen him play more than a handful of times.

For Duffy though his progression as a footballer is actually being hampered by Moyes. His Dad has posted on here saying that Shane has asked to go out on loan because Trap says he needs to be playing regular football. Moyes tells him he can’t go on loan but will get his chance in the team shortly. No matter how many times heitinga gets bullied and gives goals away, Duffy is still nowhere near the side. It’s been a wasted year for him, players learn from playing first team football because that’s the only football when results count. Duffy looked more than capable when he played last season when we had injuries, but was then taken out for no apparent reason when the experienced players came back.

I would say Barkley is in a similar situation to Duffy. Barkley at the start of last season looked like being one of our most promising players, and already looked like he was going to do good things. 1 mistake giving a penalty away and he got the shepherds hook and was rarely seen again! He has stagnated since and instead of giving him minutes against Cheltenham and the like when the game is won and giving the lad some experience, he’s thrown on when we are 2-1 down against Chelsea or 3-0 down against Wigan! While players like Hitz or Naismith are given a run out in the easier ties.

There is an article from back not long after Moyes first started at Everton and some journo following him and talking about it etc. He mentions a conversation in the car with Moyes and his coaching staff about how a player gave the ball away in training which resulted in a goal (in training) and how they laugh and say he won’t be playing for the first team anytime soon! People later commented on it being Osman because he ‘enjoyed’ a rather lengthy break from first team action round about the same time for no apparent reason.

That same logic fits in with how Barkley has been treated. It’s not a healthy environment for players to mature. The rs this season have players like wisdom, sterling, suso etc. playing regular games in their starting eleven in important matches as well. We could easily be doing the same thing with Duffy, Barkley, Velios. If it turns out the player isn’t good enough, it’s easier to get a fee for him when moving him on when he has first team experience than it is to move a player on with only reserve team football. For a club with limited resources I think the manager needs to start using the Academy more and using the likes of Duffy, Barkley etc. instead of Naismith, Hitz etc. and bring them through.

 

[Neiler]

You have to be better then whats in front of you consistently. The reason why people get annoyed about some young players not getting a run in the first team as they want to judge for themselves if a player is good or not - its a costly environment just for fans to form an opinion.

Prob the best at giving young players a go in the PL are Villa and Wigan and their in dog fights. That McManeman lid at Wigan was in our youth academy as well.

 

[blueblue]

I think that David Moyes has been very sensible in how he has introduced young players into the team...this season apart.

Most of the time he brought young players along gradually and gave them little bits of experience until they were ready for a more regular role...Coleman is a classic case.

For some reason this season is different.I really do believe that both Barkley and Duffy could each have been introduced to game for snippets of experience which would have helped their experience.The substitutions made in the game against Cheltenham for instance made no sense.

My own belief is that as the manager had decided to move on he was focusing on this season and not the long term future.He felt more comfortable with experienced players rather than youngsters and the result against Leeds copperfastened that belief.Personally I believe the experienced players let the youngsters down that night instead of the other way around.

 

[Carlito]

Any half-decent agent would have to be looking at finding new clubs for Vellios, Duffy and Barkley this summer if Moyes ends up staying. It's not going to happen for them under his management.

I'd be less bothered if so many of the old pro brigade didn't go through regular periods of abysmal form without being dropped.

 

[mutley]

it's a silly arguement for and against tbh, the proof is there that he's played the youngsters but there's always been plenty of times when he's had to play them because of the size of our squad since he's been here.

 

[Tubey]

I thought this thread was going to be a shocking development in the Yewtree saga.

Anyhoos, poor record on youth, bit of a myth about Everton because of the high profile of Rooney and Rodwell.

 

[toffeejack]

i think only half of that list have played the equivilent of more than 2 games. It's the fact they always get dropped for more experienced players, regardless of how well they've done. is that really the whole list? over 11 years?

 

[runlikehell]

Now post how many games they've played including the amount of minutes.

 

[dannyboy]

Duffy had four blinding games in an injure crisis last season MOTM in two of the games = dropped as soon as Distan was fit - it would never have happened in the Harry Cattrick years if you want to look at youth & reserve players he used - Colin Harvey - Joe Royle - Roger Kenyon - John Hurst - Alan Whittle - Jimmy Husband - Tommy Wright - all kept bigger legends out than we have now - Those players won things too!

Oh come off it, he acquitted himself okay in the circumstances but "four blinding games"? You're just seeing what you want to.

What I saw was a young centre half learning his trade who looked slightly uneasy on the ball with a slow turn of pace. There's potential to work with but he shouldn't be starting at the expense of experienced players until Moyes thinks he's ready.

 

[throughthewindandthedrain]

definitely think the youth policy is biggest indication of Moyes caution. He seems to worry about how it will reflect if we lose a goal through inexperience but not be concerned that we look fragile because when Neville, Heitinga or Howard are off form then no-one has had the experience to step in. too many players have been ruined through fear at this club. although we are not totally blameless cos the fans will forgive some and not others

 

[Joey66]

Oh come off it, he acquitted himself okay in the circumstances but "four blinding games"? You're just seeing what you want to.

What I saw was a young centre half learning his trade who looked slightly uneasy on the ball with a slow turn of pace. There's potential to work with but he shouldn't be starting at the expense of experienced players until Moyes thinks he's ready.

He acquitted himself far better than JH this year who was responsible for at least 6 goals conceded yet still selected ok a good game on Sat v city but at what price?DM has is dads army favourites own up to that at least!

 

[throughthewindandthedrain]

the question about Duffy has been how can afford to not try him when we have been leaking goals from ordinary crosses. Mucha has finally got a chance after being slated for a mistake and shown that his ability to attack crosses has provided a solidity that was missing with Howard recently

 

[Carlito]

Given his lack of pace it seems strange that Everton aren't looking to get Duffy out on loan if they really don't want him playing in the first team. If he's going to amount to anything he'll need to learn how to read the game and avoid putting himself in positions where he'll end up in foot races with pacey forwards. Another year in the reserves won't do him much good.

I was impressed by what I saw from him last season. He reminds me of Michael Dawson.

 

[dannyboy]

He acquitted himself far better than JH this year who was responsible for at least 6 goals conceded yet still selected ok a good game on Sat v city but at what price?DM has is dads army favourites own up to that at least!

I only ever try to look at things objectively so have nothing to 'own up' to.

I'm sure Moyes does have senior players he trusts, it'd be bizarre if he never. Doesn't mean he shirks the responsibility when it comes to moving them on when necessary. See Cahill last Summer.

As for the youngsters, I'd like to see Barkley given more game time at Naismith's expense, that aside I'm not really fussed because I haven't seen enough of them and I highly doubt Moyes is letting the next Rooney rot away in the U21s.

 

[Sideliner]

he only plays youngsters when he really has too -
which youngsters has he developed this year ?
Coleman is no youngster any more -
but he stubbornly persists with incompetent players like Neville and Naismith and out of form players like Heitinga and Jelavic -
he is a great manager for an also ran team - we will always be part of the race as long as Moyes is in charge -
but never on the podium !
WHY HAS NO BIG TEAM SNATCHED HIM UP BY NOW IF HE IS SUCH A BARGAIN ? especially while he is without a contract