Martinez - Thoughts So Far?

[Del]

Who do you think we could realistically target to solve your version of our problem?

Xavi.

 

[bainesontoast]

Xavi.

The same Xavi left out of the Barcelona's squad this weekend?

We might actually stand a chance!

 

[Tree13]

of the 5 quoted:

Mirallas - two free headers
Jelavic - 6 yards out, clear chance
Jelavic shot - only the keeper to beat
Deulofeu - any ball hit across the 6 yard box must be deemed a chance....

I agree we are very slow in midfield, but I'd argue that we created those chances despite being slow, and if we had an in-form striker we'd probably all be sitting here thinking how great Martinez was after three games.

Sorry, I'm with Tubey on this one.

Neither of Mirallas' headers were free. Both were under pressure from defenders, which is why he missed the target. On the evidence of his career with us so far, Kev is far better with the ball at his feet than he is with us expecting him to be a Big Dunc style centre forward. Both half-chances, at best.

Jelavic 6 yards out - took deflection off the defender which propelled it straight onto the keeper. How is that a negative against Jelavic?

Jelavic shot - he had a defender pressuring him, who had the angle to block the shot if he waited any longer to take it. It was a poor attempt, but he was never one on one with the keeper. Half-chance at best.

Deulofeu - if no-one was even in the box, it's impossible to be deemed a chance, so bang goes that theory. in this instance however, yes, someone should have stuck a toe out. More than one culpable individual there.

Certainly NOT five clear-cut chances.

 

[Aidey9]

Exactly what I feared so far... a lot of passing for passing sake and a minimum points haul. More defensively sound then I thought but we have played 3 average teams(though there are a lot of them in the Premier League).

Are record isn't great at Norwich in recent history and we didn't win there last season with Moyes either, and Norwich have gone and spent well, were on an high and are well organised under Hughton but we were unlucky not to win there, but came away with a point.

West Brom in recent years have been a dodgy team for us to face, home and away, and I admit, we weren't at are best at all in that game and they clearly came to Goodison for a point and got just that, still thought that even though we wasn't at are best, we should of won.

The Stevenage game I wont comment on cos I didn't see it but we made changes, gave players run outs and eventually got the win.

Today I thought we grew in the game and got better as it went on and on another day we'd of come away with a nice win and 3 points but it wasn't to be. After Cardiff's brilliant win last week I was expecting them to be bang up for it against us and to be a tough proposition and tbf they were ok but we was just better and dominated the game infact.

Yes, we have 3 draws and 3 points on the board but I can see were a team in transition but taking to the task very well. I'd be like a lot of fans on here and worried and moaning if we wasn't playing well and not creating anything at all as it would look like were struggling to adjust to Martinez's ways of playing but were not!. In a short space of time it looks like weve taken Martinez's ideas on board and were buying into the style of play he likes and in time we will get better. Going from being quite a direct side that by passed the midfield a lot to actually playing from the back and through midfield will take some time. Are midfield will have to adjust from pushing high up the pitch and ready to feed off knock downs or being brought into play in the final third from Felli or the striker to actually dropping in deep and picking up the ball off of the CB's or goalie and looking to play from there and then working hard to find pockets of space to keep the ball moving and keep possession and be patient with creating openings.

 

[Aidey9]

The key word to remember here is transition.

We are in transition in terms of playing style and possibly post Monday, playing personnel.

Finishing aside I sort of enjoyed today's performance given that we are only 4 games into the Martinez reign. If we could get a new striker, or even have a striker on form for once I can see real progress in the way that we are playing.

More pace in our play would help, but perhaps that is not possible in the early stages of such a transition - however, it is no coincidence that Baines and Coleman are looking less effective in a slower build up.

Realistically a top 8 finish would be a tremendous result given the changes to style the team are going through. A great Cup run or even a Cup win would just be a bonus (welcome, nevertheless).

So far for me, we are ahead of expectations despite the woeful form of Jelavic, Kone and Mirallas.

Spot on post mate, a lot of common sense in all that!.

 

[Aidey9]

They aren't clear cut chances mate, they're half chances at best.

A clear cut chance would be the two or three Kone had against Stevenage, notably from one and six yards out.

The cross along the six yard box is just that; a cross along the six yard box. It would have been a chance if the lazy yard dogs in the box made some sort of movement towards the ball, but they didn't.

For all our dominance, we didn't create a chance where I'd be able to confidently say the striker should have buried it. That's our main issue at the moment; a ponderous, slow midfield lacking creative spark.

My feeling is that Osman is holding us back massively as we don't know whether to stick or twist. Missing Gibson severely too.

Mirallas' header in the first half is as clear as you can get, free header about 10 yards out from goal?!. Jelavic header fisrt half weas a good en aswell, 2nd half when played in by Barkley, that was a clear cut chance for me, and btw, should of took it with his left.

All 3 of those were clear cut for me.

 

[johnnydawg68]

For an extra few million we could have had Negredo in Jan. Think about that for a second.

 

[The Esk]

Sorry, I'm with Tubey on this one.

Neither of Mirallas' headers were free. Both were under pressure from defenders, which is why he missed the target. On the evidence of his career with us so far, Kev is far better with the ball at his feet than he is with us expecting him to be a Big Dunc style centre forward. Both half-chances, at best.

Jelavic 6 yards out - took deflection off the defender which propelled it straight onto the keeper. How is that a negative against Jelavic?

Jelavic shot - he had a defender pressuring him, who had the angle to block the shot if he waited any longer to take it. It was a poor attempt, but he was never one on one with the keeper. Half-chance at best.

Deulofeu - if no-one was even in the box, it's impossible to be deemed a chance, so bang goes that theory. in this instance however, yes, someone should have stuck a toe out. More than one culpable individual there.

Certainly NOT five clear-cut chances.

So let's say with Cahill and Yakubu in their prime how many goals would we have scored?

The point is we made chances - I'd argue 5 clear cut chances, other can argue less. "The system" is capable of scoring goals if we have in form or better quality strikers.

That with unexpected resilience at the back suggests that we will do well in the future, hence my original comments of "better than anticipated"

 

[Aidey9]

So let's say with Cahill and Yakubu in their prime how many goals would we have scored?

The point is we made chances - I'd argue 5 clear cut chances, other can argue less. "The system" is capable of scoring goals if we have in form or better quality strikers.

That with unexpected resilience at the back suggests that we will do well in the future, hence my original comments of "better than anticipated"

That's the thing mate, in our last 2 prem games, we haven't had the rub of the green infront of goal. Like today, Mirallas' free header from Jelavic's cross should of been the other way round, Mirallas crossing with Jela on the end of it, and then who knows what might of come of it?.

And same with Jelavic's chance in 2nd half when played in by Barkley, had that been Mirallas, with his pace he'd of been on it quicker and would of took it left footed and again, who knows?.

 

[ToffeeDan]

Pretty happy with most things (bar the lack of a win). Defensively sound, general control of the games (albeit against lesser sides). Desparate for a striker or 2 up front - Vic injured again and Vellios isn't the answer with this style of play. Need to get Gibbo back (or Barry on loan, or someone) to do a job that Ossie is having to do (and not doing too well). Would like to see 2 up front when we're in charge. Realise mood might change if we lose to Chelsea (and beating them won't be easy).

Anyway let's see what Monday brings as to the mood. Hopefully nobody significant out (and if it's Felli or Baines let it be Felli if we have to lose one and pray we've sorted out a replacement other than Gareth Barry on loan and a fistful of dollars to the bank).

Tim Howard has looked relatively sharp and mistake free, Coleman has been pretty good, GD will come on, Barkley has been great. Stevie P will improve as long as he's not bullied out of games. Kev needs to sharpen up. If Traffic is the answer off the bench please don't leave him to do a job on his own (he was quite neat today but nothing in front of goal).

 

[theevertonian]

We have played 3 possible relegation teams and have 3 points. Thats depressing and a bad sign for the season as a whole. At the same time last year we were creating more chances than any other team in the league and would have scored more goals than we did had we had a finisher in form. I think Moyes went with fellaini up top half because he wanted us to get the ball forward quicker and half because we were short up front. Either way in the first half of last season we were creating plenty and scoring too. Yes it ran out of steam but for me we have still got nothing up front and I would rather he had started these first games with felli high up and young Ross further back. Sure we would have had more points.

 

[billycopper]

So let's say with Cahill and Yakubu in their prime how many goals would we have scored?

The point is we made chances - I'd argue 5 clear cut chances, other can argue less. "The system" is capable of scoring goals if we have in form or better quality strikers.

That with unexpected resilience at the back suggests that we will do well in the future, hence my original comments of "better than anticipated"

It surprises me that Cardiff were so negative. I'd have thought that they'd want to capitalise on beating City and pressure our defenders to make them go long to Jelavic.

Jela would be more suited to open games where wingers and fullbacks can get into the final third and pick him out in space. Both their centrebacks are 6 ft 3, so we probably wouldn't have got a lot of joy with high balls either. If Vic is fit we could have used him either as a wall to play one two's off or for him to turn sharply and get a shot away.

The top sides would commit a lot of bodies forward and hope for a fortunate bounce in the box. Maybe we don't have the same imperative to go for a win and were fairly happy to take a point? Is it a slight lack of killer instinct or ambition from Roberto?

 

[canveyblue]

dont seem to be playing to our (past) strengths, too much brenda style tika taka no cutting edge but its early days and its clear we need a couple in without losing anyone..overall i am disappointed with the start tho

 

[billycopper]

We have played 3 possible relegation teams and have 3 points. Thats depressing and a bad sign for the season as a whole. At the same time last year we were creating more chances than any other team in the league and would have scored more goals than we did had we had a finisher in form. I think Moyes went with fellaini up top half because he wanted us to get the ball forward quicker and half because we were short up front. Either way in the first half of last season we were creating plenty and scoring too. Yes it ran out of steam but for me we have still got nothing up front and I would rather he had started these first games with felli high up and young Ross further back. Sure we would have had more points.

Norwich- Took some big scalps at Carrow Road last season (including ours) and have strengthened a lot. They'll be one of our rivals for Europa League football this year.
West Brom- Parked the bus. They've only conceded 1 goal in 2 goals and we've found teams like that hard to break down for years.
Cardiff- It's a compliment that they had much more of a go against City than they did against us.

Maybe we do need someone along the lines of Demba Ba, Lukaku or Benteke who can terrorise defenders but also play football?

 

[bluepete]

Definitely need to see where we are after about 10 games and what state the team is in after the window closes before we get an idea where we are at. My biggest worry with Martinez is that he won't get the right players in if we do have to get rid of Felli and Baines.