Martinez Sentiment Poll: In or Out

[davek]

,

I'm wrong because you said I am? I know you like to make yourself out to be a Martinez expert, but I think I make a valid point.

Net spend is low yes, that still takes nothing away from the money that has been spent. It doesn't become a different currency, you know? He had £36m to play with and has managed to make us worse than we have been for nearly 10 years. Just because the money has been generated through the sale of one player, certainly doesn't mean it can be used as an excuse. The sales of Suarez and Bale show how generated money can be wasted, but that's okay because at least it wasn't proper money...

His record of 72 points only makes the 25 points difference swing all the more worrying that he has managed to oversee such a decline. This season could be our worst points total since the 2003-2004 season. Shall we add in the utter embarrassment of going out of both cups in the first round for the first time in 80 odd years?

All season you have come out with ridiculous comments about Martinez like some wide-eyed fanboy, refusing to see any wrong. I'm totally convinced it is all for show.

The charges against Martinez are becoming more and more diluted: a few months back we were headed for the worst finish ever, the worst points total for decades, a bottom 6 finish. Now we stand midtable the charges are that he hasn't progressed or consolidated on 5th place and 72 points.

On the spending: it is what it is. Did Moyes' supporters stop and isolate one or two seasons when we spent more than we took in and say it was a manager well backed? No. You have to consider net spend only and Martinez has, in this day and age of massive increases in revenue for all PL clubs, spent almost nothing on this squad.

 

[Joey66]

RM has no clout to spend big so imo give him time to use younger players, this season the old guard have failed us, we have an ageing squad, A younger squad is needed!

 

[Seanjd]

I'm wrong because you said I am? I know you like to make yourself out to be a Martinez expert, but I think I make a valid point.

Net spend is low yes, that still takes nothing away from the money that has been spent. It doesn't become a different currency, you know? He had £36m to play with and has managed to make us worse than we have been for nearly 10 years. Just because the money has been generated through the sale of one player, certainly doesn't mean it can be used as an excuse. The sales of Suarez and Bale show how generated money can be wasted, but that's okay because at least it wasn't proper money...

His record of 72 points only makes the 25 points difference swing all the more worrying that he has managed to oversee such a decline. This season could be our worst points total since the 2003-2004 season. Shall we add in the utter embarrassment of going out of both cups in the first round for the first time in 80 odd years?

All season you have come out with ridiculous comments about Martinez like some wide-eyed fanboy, refusing to see any wrong. I'm totally convinced it is all for show.

Martinez, of course, has certainly had his faults this season. I don't think his spending has been one, though. As Davek said, it is largely the same squad of players as last season which was regarded a huge triumph. Spending the bulk of our players sold revenue on Lukaku, I think, was absolutely the right thing to do. You have compared it to teams who have sold and bought badly, but this is far from that, because Lukaku remains an excellent, young player. We have invested our money into him and if he is to leave, we will get more back. We needed a goal scorer desperately and we have one. 20 goals this season.

So what's different to last season. Well, we are in the Europa league which added much more strain onto a squad which unfortunately has been relying on older players to bulk it out. I'm sure Martinez made the call and risked those players (Osman, Pienaar and the like) being fit more than they have been, so that's been unfortunate. It's been a strange season in the regards that many of the older players who performed well last year seem to have all reached the end at the same time. Granted, Distin was getting in but his fall this season has been meteoric.

We have a big summer ahead - realistically, we need to replace many of the older players and I think we will. Ok still glad we spent the bulk of our transfer wage in such a talent, though. That opportunity might not have been available any other time.

 

[Toffeelover]

RM has no clout to spend big so imo give him time to use younger players, this season the old guard have failed us, we have an ageing squad, A younger squad is needed!

Then throw in the subject of Garbutt and the hanging on and playing of old players like Barry, & Osman.

 

[Lowste]

We have several young AND older players who need to move up to that next level. Unfortunately unless we're very lucky martinez is not the person to do that. He's to inexperienced himself! He may become a top class manager....he may not..who knows...

We need a ancoloti or mouriniho type!!! Someone who knows how to make a winning team and turn players into world class players. Who come's with a team of top class coaches.

Can we afford that? Most probably not....we will always be very everton until as a club we can make that step with a top manager to help the players OR strike it lucky with a unknown which I'm pretty sure martinez is not!

Every manager we go for is a gamble, as we can't go for the big names
If RM isn't upto the job who is, your answer will be no idea

 

[Lowste]

Pretty much all on one player, mostly with funds generated through last season's sales. If you think buying Lukaku was wrong then fair enough, but I'd have to disagree if so.

I think well we need to factor the TV money into Lukaku, I said at the time 18m was a good price for him.
As the TV money was there prices went stupid and I think Shane Long went for something like 14m, now that is madness.
28m is steep, but he is worth every penny of it

 

[sageyefc]

I think well we need to factor the TV money into Lukaku, I said at the time 18m was a good price for him.
As the TV money was there prices went stupid and I think Shane Long went for something like 14m, now that is madness.
28m is steep, but he is worth every penny of it

TBH 25m for someone who more or less guarantees around 18-20 goals and has huge potential is a good price.

We bought a work in progress, a few evertonians arent patient enough to understand it takes time to develop into a world class player.

As long as he keeps slotting in the meantime, im sound with that

 

[GwladysBlue]

,
The charges against Martinez are becoming more and more diluted: a few months back we were headed for the worst finish ever, the worst points total for decades, a bottom 6 finish. Now we stand midtable the charges are that he hasn't progressed or consolidated on 5th place and 72 points.

On the spending: it is what it is. Did Moyes' supporters stop and isolate one or two seasons when we spent more than we took in and say it was a manager well backed? No. You have to consider net spend only and Martinez has, in this day and age of massive increases in revenue for all PL clubs, spent almost nothing on this squad.

This will be our worst point total for a decade. You say the charges are becoming diluted because he has got us to the lofty heights of 10th, are you on the wind up? It is a position that is completely unacceptable. You do know that you don't win anything for finishing 5th as well don't you? that seems to be the argument you hark back to consistently.

I suppose to conclude this debate fittingly, would be it comes down to what your thoughts are on Everton. Mine are that this club should never be in a dogfight with West Ham for 10th, to be going out of domestic cups in the first round, to watch absolute garbage teams take points consistently from us; yours is that Martinez has done an excellent job and that seems to be enough.

 

[Joey66]

Then throw in the subject of Garbutt and the hanging on and playing of old players like Barry, & Osman.

I agree with that but out of all the ageing players Osman has been the better, but he is still only a 40-60 min player, We have been too generous with older players contracts and wages which we can ill afford - Hibbert, Distan , Howard, Barry, etc, and some very bad buys in Kone, and Alcaraz again too old!
This is a bad theme in our club, and needs rectifying in the future Garbutt if he leaves will be a loss it will go to Tribunial as we paid a million for him developed him and sadly may lose him!

 

[Toffeelover]

This will be our worst point total for a decade. You say the charges are becoming diluted because he has got us to the lofty heights of 10th, are you on the wind up? It is a position that is completely unacceptable. You do know that you don't win anything for finishing 5th as well don't you? that seems to be the argument you hark back to consistently.

I suppose to conclude this debate fittingly, would be it comes down to what your thoughts are on Everton. Mine are that this club should never be in a dogfight with West Ham for 10th, to be going out of domestic cups in the first round, to watch absolute garbage teams take points consistently from us; yours is that Martinez has done an excellent job and that seems to be enough.

This is also why it is for me, we should not be in this position which is why and I have said it before, I remain unconvinced in him as our long term manager.

I think it was SeanJ who said better be a good summer and I agree but this is a double edged sword. The signings may be spot and we have a good season mirroring his first which we all hope for but if the signings are not good we could have another dreadful start of a season and where will we be then. Okay with Wigan got the FA Cup but did not exactly make any great success in the PL during his time as Manager there and down they went after 3 seasons. If he did depart before Xmas, the new manager could then be left with a barnful of crap players on 3/4 year contracts.

 

[Titus Bramble]

I don't think money spent should be used as a stick to beat Martinez with. With exception to kone and alcaraz he hasn't bought badly. The issues have been how we've played as a team, not the individuals within the team, apart from Howard and alcaraz in Kiev.

I agree dropping Robles and not hauling Alcaraz off at h/t in Kiev were poor decisions.

 

[bizzaro]

@davek

Martinez should be allowed to move on from his Wigan era.

Alcaraz has to go in my view. Let Martinez go out and by 'Everton Players'

Not ex Wigan players.

 

[Joey66]

@davek

Martinez should be allowed to move on from his Wigan era.

Alcaraz has to go in my view. Let Martinez go out and by 'Everton Players'

Not ex Wigan players.

Buy good prospects, I would like him to look in the lower leagues players like Cahill, Shamus Coleman are out there!

 

[sageyefc]

Buy good prospects, I would like him to look in the lower leagues players like Cahill, Shamus Coleman are out there!

Problem is even those type of players these days are several million. Much easier to go abroad and pick up players from La liga, bundeliga etc

 

[Joey66]

Problem is even those type of players these days are several million. Much easier to go abroad and pick up players from La liga, bundeliga etc

I mean unknowns like shamus or even our youngsters need looking at, Barry to me had his best season last season this season was one season too much, and when he plays we normally struggle as he tires easily ten yellow cards!