Martinez Sentiment Poll: In or Out

[hullefc]

Well yes I agree with Martinez. Those attributes to tend to grow over time, Paul Scholes was one of the best I have seen with them and he developed them as he grew older (as a young second striker he didn't have them so much). However most players like your Wilshires, Ozils, Osmans display them from a younger age and they get developed over time.

The lack of what could be labelled mental flexibility is at present what prevents Ross being an absolute worldbeater (or potential to be) like say a Rooney had. Whatever position Rooney is played in, he is able to adapt. That to me is the main difference. It's not a biggie and he can still be a very good player, but as you've said he needs to be allowed to play to his strengths next season. I think Martinez has probably expected a bit much from him.

It has taken a manager like Martinez for me (and others) I think to really appreciate the ability of Osman. At times he was a liability under Moyes but I am starting to wonder how much of that was his fault, or how much of it was down to Moyes expecting him to play like Kevin Kilbane up and down on the right wing. You can see Martinez plays to Osman's strengths. It's a real shame Martinez has only got to work with him at the end of his career, as I doubt very much he'd had spent a decade playing right wing in a rigid 4-5-1 had he been.

As regards Liverpool, yes I agree. Can is a class act, and has a lot of similar attributes to Stones (hence why I left him our of the earlier criticism of their defence). Outside of Moreno they don't have a player who can play either fullback role. I could easily see Oviedo and Garbutt being able to play left full back.

You are susceptible down the flanks in that system, but we are already susceptible down the flanks! I am in favour of playing Barkley deeper, but there is a legitimate question of protection behind him. He has shown he can "run the game" in a way very few others can in English football. But last seasons derby we were flying and all out attack. Against QPR he was superb too, but that was against a side who had lost every away game that season. The big question is, can he run the game at Spurs away? If we don't go to 3 at the back I wonder if Martinez will use him in some more challenging games in a midfield 3 alongside Besic and McCarthy.

IMO that is why Ross is not setting the world alight at the moment, in a number 10 role, he does have the nous to play 'intelligently'. That doesn't mean he can't develop 'in game' intelligence with experience but to gain experience he needs game time. 'Mistakes' and all. He needs to play and also needs to reflect on his game alongside Martinez.

I think we should play him in a midfield 3 with McCarthy holding and Ross on one side and Besic on the other. But at the moment he loses the ball too much and that can make him a bit of a liability playing nearer the defence.

 

[Allezfan]

LOL at the hypocrisy of you suggesting that I ignore you when that is exactly what you should do if other blues post stuff you don't agree with toodles

your big fat lip is wobbling with outrage as you take the moral high ground again claiming that looking down at other blues who have issues with the manager is what separates us from the kopites

condescending claptrap

I'd take your moral outrage more seriously if you hadn't called davek a kopite yourself in an earlier post.

It's typical of these kind of conversations where what's important is winning rather than actually convincing other people of your argument or god forbid having a respetful conversation and exchanging of views.

You can call dave 'badly kopite' and that's fine but it's outrageous when someone on 'the other side' does the same.

Wish more people would remember that we're all blues and scrap this venemous attitude towards each other that's going on here.

 

[chicoazul]

Bit off topic this, mods.


on topic - how about that Bobby eh! not doing much of a job

@Woolly Blue he's tried to tag himself in when I was replying to a nasty post defending my honour.

He obviously hasn't heard of playing the mod though. Old skool rules. Teach him the ways.

 

[BlueLlama]

LOL at the hypocrisy of you suggesting that I ignore you when that is exactly what you should do if other blues post stuff you don't agree with toodles

your big fat lip is wobbling with outrage as you take the moral high ground again claiming that looking down at other blues who have issues with the manager is what separates us from the kopites

condescending claptrap

Outraged mate? Go daub some graffiti on the stadium

 

[Allezfan]

how about that Bobby eh! not doing much of a job

He isn't.

I've said before that there needs to be a proper conversation about why we've failed so badly this year and what we can do to recover next.

Davek has been trying his best to do that by talking about the clear out job needed this summer but I think it's more than just personel, Martinez needs to look at tactics and mentality, too.

He's done very badly in a lot of ways this season.

Unfortunately a certain type of poster keeps trying to posion that debate by fearmongering about relegation and calling for his head which is just hysterical overreaction and doesn't help.

It's that sort of stuff that leads to the booing perfectly decent football and the graffiti and stuff that just isn't useful.

You can see in this thread how you've got this very personal bickering between @chicoazul and @squonk which is just unseemly.

Both of them are massively out of line with their comments directed at other fans and should know better but it illustrates the way our fanbase has got very nasty and divided of late.

Not nice.

 

[chicoazul]

I would like to apologise to fellow Evertonians for my comments if I have offended.

 

[eddy]

Im dreading this `buffoon` being allowed any sky money, the summer will be a really dangerous time if this `buffoon` is kept on, his philosophy is to make it up as goes along, the next nine games will be interesting

 

[Allezfan]

Im dreading this `buffoon` being allowed any sky money, the summer will be a really dangerous time if this `buffoon` is kept on, his philosophy is to make it up as goes along, the next nine games will be interesting

Thing is someone has to spend that money.

We need what another 8 players maybe this summer?

Certainly you could bin 8 players without any murmer of complaint if not more.

You're going to have trust someone to try and rebuild this squad and it's a big job that could effect us for years.

If not martinez then who? I mean, I'll tell you right now that Besic, McCarthy and Lukaku shouldn't be binned so his record can't be too bad.

 

[orly]

I would like to apologise to fellow Evertonians for my comments if I have offended.

Ten negative points?!?!?!?!

I'm as disappointed by this as I am Martinez's horrible performance this season and @squonk 's mutli-farious ranting

 

[catcherintherye]

IMO that is why Ross is not setting the world alight at the moment, in a number 10 role, he does have the nous to play 'intelligently'. That doesn't mean he can't develop 'in game' intelligence with experience but to gain experience he needs game time. 'Mistakes' and all. He needs to play and also needs to reflect on his game alongside Martinez.

I think we should play him in a midfield 3 with McCarthy holding and Ross on one side and Besic on the other. But at the moment he loses the ball too much and that can make him a bit of a liability playing nearer the defence.

Well yes I agree. I think that has to go alongside him being more tightly marked and also the subsequent drop in confidence and form.

I think this season Martinez has tried to build into Ross an in game intelligence, by playing him in different positions (particular the false 9 and from the left). All it has taught me is players like Osman are under rated in their ability to move between different positions.

I think he can play a particular role as a number 10. I think he is best when he is facing play though and countering teams. I think playing with two central midfield players but deeper would suit him. He has a fantastic passing range with both feet and can dribble past players. There's no doubt he can control the tempo. He just lacks positional awareness that is require when you play further up the field and it is more congested.

He does make some mistakes. I think this is what he needs to cut out of his game. Trying to make him into an Osman, Iniesta/Wilshire type of player won't be productive. He needs to try and limit the mistakes he makes. We also need to be trying to get him the ball as often as possible.

 

[Allezfan]

Well yes I agree. I think that has to go alongside him being more tightly marked and also the subsequent drop in confidence and form.

I think this season Martinez has tried to build into Ross an in game intelligence, by playing him in different positions (particular the false 9 and from the left). All it has taught me is players like Osman are under rated in their ability to move between different positions.

I think he can play a particular role as a number 10. I think he is best when he is facing play though and countering teams. I think playing with two central midfield players but deeper would suit him. He has a fantastic passing range with both feet and can dribble past players. There's no doubt he can control the tempo. He just lacks positional awareness that is require when you play further up the field and it is more congested.

He does make some mistakes. I think this is what he needs to cut out of his game. Trying to make him into an Osman, Iniesta/Wilshire type of player won't be productive. He needs to try and limit the mistakes he makes. We also need to be trying to get him the ball as often as possible.

Osman has suffered more than any player I know from being shifted around.

So many awful games on the wing when he was perfectly good in the middle.

Agree about Barkley, though. He's got the talent, it's just a matter of using it probably. Both by him making the right decisions and the manager making the right decisions in where to use him.

 

[catcherintherye]

Osman has suffered more than any player I know from being shifted around.

So many awful games on the wing when he was perfectly good in the middle.

Agree about Barkley, though. He's got the talent, it's just a matter of using it probably. Both by him making the right decisions and the manager making the right decisions in where to use him.

Well yes. I re-read part of his book recently. The way he describes the cup final and having a poor game chasing Ashley Cole where he shouldn't have. When I first read it I thought "typically useless Osman, wanting to duck out of putting a shift in". But when I think about it more it was tactical ineptitude to expect someone like Osman to handle a player with the physical attributes of Ashley Cole.

What Osman was really alluding too, was if he had been given a free role he could have taken up positions that would have caused Chelsea harm. I don't think Moyes ever really understand the value of having a small but clever player like Osman and a lot of the fan base don't either. Too often he was a square peg in a round hole under Moyes, who I don't think ever really played in a way that got the best from him.

As regards Barkley he has unique talent. Gasgoine was very similar, if you played him anywhere than in central midfield he would struggle. Rooney is different and has an intelligence to play a variety of roles. He needs to improve his decision making, but he will always make mistakes, the key is getting him into a position where he can influence the game positively and get on the ball to his as often as possible.

 

[Khalekan]

I would like to apologise to fellow Evertonians for my comments if I have offended.

Well, I accept your apology but if I am honest witchoo you may well have scarred me forever......

 

[Groucho]

Ten negative points?!?!?!?!

I'm as disappointed by this as I am Martinez's horrible performance this season and @squonk 's mutli-farious ranting

Besides the problems that advertising the fact you've been negged will bring, are you aware of the recent directive from the boss to ban any off topic posts in the Everton forum for a fortnight? I've already had the hammer out today.

Discussing rep is off topic. Leave it, remain on topic. Matter closed.

 

[Allezfan]

Well yes. I re-read part of his book recently. The way he describes the cup final and having a poor game chasing Ashley Cole where he shouldn't have. When I first read it I thought "typically useless Osman, wanting to duck out of putting a shift in". But when I think about it more it was tactical ineptitude to expect someone like Osman to handle a player with the physical attributes of Ashley Cole.

What Osman was really alluding too, was if he had been given a free role he could have taken up positions that would have caused Chelsea harm. I don't think Moyes ever really understand the value of having a small but clever player like Osman and a lot of the fan base don't either. Too often he was a square peg in a round hole under Moyes, who I don't think ever really played in a way that got the best from him.

As regards Barkley he has unique talent. Gasgoine was very similar, if you played him anywhere than in central midfield he would struggle. Rooney is different and has an intelligence to play a variety of roles. He needs to improve his decision making, but he will always make mistakes, the key is getting him into a position where he can influence the game positively and get on the ball to his as often as possible.

There were glimpses, certainly in his later seasons where we became much more of a posession team but yeah I agree.

I remember a time when both Cahill and Fellaini were injured and we played a central midfield of Osman, Arteta and Bily and beat chelsea and man u in consecutive games and it was amazing and then cahill and fellaini came back and that was the end of that.