Martinez Out: Post Stoke poll

Yes or no?


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Football is not all about winning

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LOL why?

I think you´d find the majority of fans would have an opinion on how their team should go about playing. The extreme example being Madrid who will sack successful managers due to the style of play not being good enough. Thats a pretty high profile example of not treating the beautiful game as being only about winning.

So LOL at your post Chris :)
 
To be fair to him, I've never seen Davek say we're doing well right now, just that given time, Martinez will get things right. I can only praise his support of a manager who has the potential to deliver the goods.

Martinez is making it very difficult to support him at the moment, and I don't have a clue what to think. I don't know whether I want him gone or to stand by him and hope he delivers.

Hoping he delivers next season is one hell of a gamble. If he doesn't then the damage could knock us back years. Nobody knows what next season holds.

For me he has to show signs of making it better before the end of this season to get to carry on next season.
 
Hoping he delivers next season is one hell of a gamble. If he doesn't then the damage could knock us back years. Nobody knows what next season holds.

For me he has to show signs of making it better before the end of this season to get to carry on next season.

Yep. That's why I just can't make my mind up. It's all about weighing up the odds, and I must admit, Martinez's relegation battle history (albeit with Wigan) doesn't fill me with confidence. Can he I still that battling sentiment in the team? I don't know.
 
The situation we currently have, for those who are old enough to remember reminds me of Joe Royle in 1996-7.

There is no doubt Royle had slightly lost the plot. His big signings (Kanchelskis particularly) had underperformed and wanted away. We have injuries to key players like Fergusan, Southall in goal had lost all form and confidence of those in front of him (rather like Howard today, a situation only solved when we binned him the following December).

We had dropped like a stone that season. It seemed almost impossible for us to be considering relegation and while we never looked in serious trouble it was always an outside possibility (similar to this season).

Royle had lost the plot, the local media had turned and he had become paranoid.

Like Martinez now, in the previous season(s) he had done a brilliant job. We looked a top team ready to challenge anyone. Yet bizarrely it all went wrong very quickly. Injuries and lack of form led to this, not helped by the local media.

Of course history tells us we (sort of) got rid of Royle. My worry about doing the same with Martinez is we have the same results. Getting rid of Royle didn't reverse the anomie that surrounded the club. The following season we went into the final game of the season needing other sides to do us a favour to stay up.

Had it not been for Kevin Campbell there's little doubt we'd have been relegated the season after. We all know the relegation problems we faced. The point I make, was getting rid of Royle didn't solve the problems, it further exacerbated them.

If we compare to Moyes in 2004, who had "lost the dressing room" he was given support. From the following 9 years we finished below 8th once, and never below 11th.

When I read the Royle book back what hit me was not that it was a man out of his depth. It was that he was a man who needed a bit of a break and a bit of support and who had become overly defensive and a little paranoid.
There was nothing that a close season away from the day to day pressures of preparing for matches to re-assess couldn't have solved (as it did with Moyes and I think will for Martinez).

Royle wanted to Bring Flo in for just over a million pounds. What a signing he could have been! He hadn't become a bad manager. The saddest thing of the late 90's were we were so close to being a top team. People were tipping us to challenge to win the league as Dark horses.

We needed a goalkeeper and a centre half, and possibly a partner for Fergusan (see Flo). We had a lot of talented young players coming through. Royle had already Blooded O'Connor and in a steady winning environment and Royle's tutelage I doubt the likes of Jeffers, Cadamateri, Dunne, Ball etc would have been allowed to squander their abilities.

The same is true now. I worry that hitting the sack button will not only compound our problems, but will stunt the development of our young players.

We live in a world of immediate gratification. Easy Solutions, often being the most radical ones. What is needed to me, is a bit of back to the drawing board, reassessment from Martinez. Moving 3-4 players on bringing a couple in and starting afresh next season.
 
I do generally agree, however, that the bottom 3 places have more or less been decided, so Martinez needs at least another season to prove his worth.
 
Yep. That's why I just can't make my mind up. It's all about weighing up the odds, and I must admit, Martinez's relegation battle history (albeit with Wigan) doesn't fill me with confidence. Can he I still that battling sentiment in the team? I don't know.

He never has done before, which is the worry. Wigan seemingly just carried on regardless until they went down.
 
LOL why?

I think you´d find the majority of fans would have an opinion on how their team should go about playing. The extreme example being Madrid who will sack successful managers due to the style of play not being good enough. Thats a pretty high profile example of not treating the beautiful game as being only about winning.

So LOL at your post Chris :)

Because football is about winning, the entire point about it is to win trophies so......

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He never has done before, which is the worry. Wigan seemingly just carried on regardless until they went down.

But on the flip side of that, he's a young manager and needs to learn, and Wigan were Wigan - destined for relegation at some point. They were certainly not a premier league team.
 
Yep. That's why I just can't make my mind up. It's all about weighing up the odds, and I must admit, Martinez's relegation battle history (albeit with Wigan) doesn't fill me with confidence. Can he I still that battling sentiment in the team? I don't know.

Well Sean, so far the omens have not been looking good. For me still find it difficult to see any light at the end of the tunnel.
 
But on the flip side of that, he's a young manager and needs to learn, and Wigan were Wigan - destined for relegation at some point. They were certainly not a premier league team.

In which case Sean, one could say it was too soon to come to a club like Everton!
 
Well Sean, so far the omens have not been looking good. For me still find it difficult to see any light at the end of the tunnel.

I know, and it's all about how long it takes for that recovery to happen, and if any of the bottom 3 begin to recover.
 
Hoping he delivers next season is one hell of a gamble. If he doesn't then the damage could knock us back years. Nobody knows what next season holds.

For me he has to show signs of making it better before the end of this season to get to carry on next season.

This is why I would rather move on to another manager before next season. I have no coffidence he will be any better next season. Why? Because I seriously doubt he will or is capable of changing his ways.

Teams know how to play against him. It will ALWAYS cause us issues. His philosophy is more important to him than success.

A very dangerous man to have in charge of a football club imo.

Thanks for the brilliant season. (Which was still not as good as moyes best 4th btw) and good luck with your future endeavours.
 
In which case Sean, one could say it was too soon to come to a club like Everton!

That's another argument, but yet he did so well in his first season. That's why I can't make my mind up. It's a really difficult situation for out supporters I think.
 
I think RM is out of his depth in terms of managing supporter expectancy this season and having got the team into a downward spiral (poor tactics, substitutions, etc) has failed to manage the situation. His ridiculous post match comments about phenomenal performances and the team showing character and so on have not helped. Personally i don't think he will make any headway next year but I would love to be proved wrong.
 
But on the flip side of that, he's a young manager and needs to learn, and Wigan were Wigan - destined for relegation at some point. They were certainly not a premier league team.

That's true, but you can only learn if there is a willingness to do so. I'm not sure if Martinez even sees there is a problem, he's fallen in to the Moyes trap of over-stating how good our chances in games are and blaming missing them on losing games.
 
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