Current Affairs LGBTQ Good Religion Bad - discuss

[Efcjake]

I feel like you’re not reading my posts at all here mate, seeing as both of them are specifically about why he would write it on his armband and you just keep coming back asking why I’m ignoring that he wrote on an armband.

I also haven’t given any ‘he just loves his religion’ bollocks. Apart from that though, good post.

Sorry I just don't find it at all likely that the message was intended to represent a message of support from Christians to the LGBTQ community.

Again, there are many more respectful ways to do that if that was his intent. He gets to speak to the press. He has opportunities to express himself that don't require writing on that armband.

 

[Kever10]

You didn't I took it as an insinuation that the act of taking a knee offended you since you labelled it politically motivated and suggested "they end up creating more division and aggro. And to be honest, I'm not entirely convinced that that isn't at least part of the intention behind it in the 1st place."

To me that insinuates not only do you disagree with it but the very act offends you.

If it doesn't offend you then why are you taking any notice of it? You brought it up for a reason.

Sorry dude, you assumed wrong.

I wasn't offended.

Nor was i offended by "Jesus you".

Plenty seem to be though.

 

[Rita_Poon]

If it was a "End the Palestinian genocide" armband and he'd drawn a star of David on it you wouldn't be sat there debating what the intention behind it was would we?

When religious beliefs have been used to persecute and provoke violence against a specific community then advertising your religious beliefs on a symbol meant to end that mentality and violence is incredibly disrespectful to that.

Unreal the cognitive dissonance some are willing to have to come up with justifications and excuses for this.

There's no good reason THAT message had to be in THAT armband. That's all it comes down to. Unless someone can tell me why it was necessary for him to write on the rainbow armband then I'm going to choose to assume he's a nob head.

It's blatantly disrespectful to the cause it's intended to support and he's a bad bell end for doing that.

With the amount of 'media training' all players get now to try to keep their and their clubs reputations away from the front pages/headlines, at best this choice is stupendously poor. At worst it is down right looking for provocative reaction specifically against the intended beneficiary of the cause for the arm band of acceptance.

His not being punished is indication of nothing from the fa besides their cack handedness that has been evidenced for decades.

My guess, he doesn't try this on again. Innocently or otherwise.

 

[Lanolin]

Sorry I just don't find it at all likely that the message was intended to represent a message of support from Christians to the LGBTQ community.

Again, there are many more respectful ways to do that if that was his intent. He gets to speak to the press. He has opportunities to express himself that don't require writing on that armband.

Again though, that isn’t what I’m saying! I have made it clear that I think it is POSSIBLE that he was effectively trying to mitigate the potential ‘offence’ to his fanatically religious friends and family by adding the message rather deliberately being offensive. It would be cowardly and weak but not necessarily deliberately offensive, that’s all I’ve been saying. It is of course also entirely possible that he’s a horrible bigot, I’m not ruling out the possibility.

 

[Efcjake]

Sorry dude, you assumed wrong.

I wasn't offended.

Nor was i offended by "Jesus you".

Plenty seem to be though.

So not offended but you think it causes division and aggro?

And so you don't like it?

 

[Efcjake]

Again though, that isn’t what I’m saying! I have made it clear that I think it is POSSIBLE that he was effectively trying to mitigate the potential ‘offence’ to his fanatically religious friends and family by adding the message rather deliberately being offensive. It would be cowardly and weak but not necessarily deliberately offensive, that’s all I’ve been saying. It is of course also entirely possible that he’s a horrible bigot, I’m not ruling out the possibility.

It is deliberately offensive if that's his intent.

The simple act of defacing THAT armband with THAT message is disrespectful in and of itself.

Even if he wrote anything else on it. I still see it as attempting to co-opt the message the rainbow armband is intended to send. That's disrespectful to the campaign and community, regardless of what was actually said. He's taken over the platform that was not intended for his message but for a completely different one.

Regardless of where you stand on LGBTQ rights this is what was disrespectful.

If it was an armband supporting any other cause and someone decides to just ignore it and replace it with their own that's disrespectful, end of.

 

[d34noj]

It is deliberately offensive if that's his intent.

The simple act of defacing THAT armband with THAT message is disrespectful in and of itself.

Even if he wrote anything else on it. I still see it as attempting to co-opt the message the rainbow armband is intended to send. That's disrespectful to the campaign and community, regardless of what was actually said. He's taken over the platform that was not intended for his message but for a completely different one.

Regardless of where you stand on LGBTQ rights this is what was disrespectful.

If it was an armband supporting any other cause and someone decides to just ignore it and replace it with their own that's disrespectful, end of.

IF that's his intent.

Which we don't know. As for the rest, it's widely known that footballers are some of the most intelligent people in the world, and not absolute simpletons - therefore we are well within our rights to believe he thought it through and was expecting such a backlash.

 

[Kever10]

So not offended but you think it causes division and aggro?

And so you don't like it?

What it sounds like is that you have taken offence to it when you didn't need to. After he made a decision, rightly or wrongly, to make a compromise that he was comfortable with, because he wasn't completely comfortable in the message he was coerced into displaying, which was the point i was making.

There may indeed be good intentions behind the campaign, but it's delivery is hamfisted. Same as Guehi's response.

If you choose to believe his response had antagonistic intent, why is it so hard to understand that people might believe it's possible that the campaign does as well?

 

[d34noj]

Sorry I just don't find it at all likely that the message was intended to represent a message of support from Christians to the LGBTQ community.

Again, there are many more respectful ways to do that if that was his intent. He gets to speak to the press. He has opportunities to express himself that don't require writing on that armband.

You know the rainbow has been a Christian symbol for 2 centuries? It symbolises God's protection.

You associate it with LGBTQ+, yet it was only associated with that particular community since 1978.

PERHAPS, just PERHAPS - you're reading into it too much?

 

[KaiserEFC]

He’s obviously a knobhead but nothing can convince me it isn’t all a marketing ploy by the PL and the more people who refuse to wear it equals more free advertising for the league because every news outlet picks it up.l and the controversy is all over social media.

I’ll go even further, the league loves ownership and money from people in places who really really don’t love basic human rights and letting people be who they want to be. Somebody who shares those views and wants to follow the sport sees a player is obviously standing against them and aligns with their views, they decide to follow that player and team and buy a subscription to watch the league. Imo there’s only one winner no matter what a player does, the PL.

Or the world has just turned me into a colossal cynic, who knows.

 

[Ming the Merciful]

I'm all for exposing religious bigotry and this campaign has shone a light on particularly Islam and to a lesser degree Christianity although maybe the hard-line Christian bigots prefer to lurk in the shadows a bit more.

I'm just fed up of any and all social justice campaigns personally. A good point was made about the poppy campaign which as an unashamedly proud Brit I was happy to endorse but now I think what's the point if it's policed or enforced?

Lose the poppy, lose the rainbow, stop taking the knee, ban sponsorship and just have it as sporting competition full stop.

Obviously money won't let that happen but I think a lot of people who just want to watch football are having political and social issues forced upon their weekend escapism.

 

[Efcjake]

You know the rainbow has been a Christian symbol for 2 centuries? It symbolises God's protection.

You associate it with LGBTQ+, yet it was only associated with that particular community since 1978.

PERHAPS, just PERHAPS - you're reading into it too much?

Come off it mate.

You know, I know, and he knows what that particular rainbow was symbolizing support for.

 

[Bluerover]

You know the rainbow has been a Christian symbol for 2 centuries? It symbolises God's protection.

You associate it with LGBTQ+, yet it was only associated with that particular community since 1978.

PERHAPS, just PERHAPS - you're reading into it too much?

Then I saw another mighty angel coming down from heaven. He was robed in a cloud, with a rainbow above his head; his face was like the sun, and his legs were like fiery pillars.

 

[Bluerover]

You know the rainbow has been a Christian symbol for 2 centuries? It symbolises God's protection.

You associate it with LGBTQ+, yet it was only associated with that particular community since 1978.

PERHAPS, just PERHAPS - you're reading into it too much?

For a lot more than two centuries my friend .

Revelation dates from around 90-100 CE and this section of Genesis in the Hebrew Bible was probably written in the 5th century BCE:

Gen 9: 13-17
13 I have set my rainbow in the clouds, and it will be the sign of the covenant between me and the earth.14Whenever I bring clouds over the earth and the rainbow appears in the clouds,15I will remember my covenant between me and you and all living creatures of every kind. Never again will the waters become a flood to destroy all life.16Whenever the rainbow appears in the clouds, I will see it and remember the everlasting covenant between God and all living creatures of every kind on the earth."17So God said to Noah, "This is the sign of the covenant I have established between me and all life on the earth."

Revelation 10:1

Then I saw another mighty angel coming down from heaven. He was robed in a cloud, with a rainbow above his head; his face was like the sun, and his legs were like fiery pillars.

 

[Bluerover]

@d34noj

It would be nice if people showed respect for others' views even if they disagree with them.

As previously posted this excludes views that incite hatred or violence towards others.

Ephesians 4: 29, 31-32.

29 Do not let any unwholesome talk come out of your mouths, but only what is helpful for building others up according to their needs, that it may benefit those who listen.

... 31 Get rid of all bitterness, rage and anger, brawling and slander, along with every form of malice. 32 Be kind and compassionate to one another, forgiving each other, just as in Christ God forgave you.

​

Unfortunately some in this forum have used foul language to describe something I had posted and put my genuinely held views 'in the bin'.

Ah well .