Current Affairs Knife crime

[tsubaki]

Ok, let me try something else. If you had 30,000 officers at your disposal and a spate of stabbing sand murder were causing mayhem and ruining the reputation of your City, would you a) do something or b) moan about previous cuts......

Pete, as Harryflashman tried to explain to you she does not have 30,000 officers "at her disposal". She has a wide variety of responsibilities, some of national and international importance that have to be covered. She has to protect a city thats been attacked three times in the past year by terrorists as well as try to keep 8 million people safe from everyday crime. She has to deal with the aftermath of the biggest disaster in the UK since Lockerbie, which in and of itself probably took several hundred officers to deal with.

Of course she is going to try and do something, just as her officers are - but if you think that losing 3000 cops and 8000 police staff hasn't had an effect, or that losing another 3000 cops in the next two years wouldn't have even more of an effect, then there really isn't anything else that can be said to you on the subject.

 

[peteblue]

Pete, as Harryflashman tried to explain to you she does not have 30,000 officers "at her disposal". She has a wide variety of responsibilities, some of national and international importance that have to be covered. She has to protect a city thats been attacked three times in the past year by terrorists as well as try to keep 8 million people safe from everyday crime. She has to deal with the aftermath of the biggest disaster in the UK since Lockerbie, which in and of itself probably took several hundred officers to deal with.

Of course she is going to try and do something, just as her officers are - but if you think that losing 3000 cops and 8000 police staff hasn't had an effect, or that losing another 3000 cops in the next two years wouldn't have even more of an effect, then there really isn't anything else that can be said to you on the subject.

Oh come on. How are the 30,000 Police being used. If she can’t do the job with the people she has then she should either resign, demand an increase in rates for the police in London boroughs, demand assistance from other forces or request assistance from the military or the government. I think she may be made of sterner stuff and has not actually done any of these things. If terrorists killed 30-40 people money and personnel would be found, well guess what, these gangsters are acting just like terrorists and we should treat them as such.....

 

[tsubaki]

Oh come on. How are the 30,000 Police being used. If she can’t do the job with the people she has then she should either resign, demand an increase in rates for the police in London boroughs, demand assistance from other forces or request assistance from the military or the government. I think she may be made of sterner stuff and has not actually done any of these things. If terrorists killed 30-40 people money and personnel would be found, well guess what, these gangsters are acting just like terrorists and we should treat them as such.....

Pete he told you how the Police are being used. She has got extra money off the rates, which Sadiq Khan has given her. She has got assistance from other forces. It is not enough.

As for your terrorists point, terrorists did kill people last year in London and the Government cut the amount of money it sends the Met.

 

[Harryflashman]

Pete he told you how the Police are being used. She has got extra money off the rates, which Sadiq Khan has given her. She has got assistance from other forces. It is not enough.

As for your terrorists point, terrorists did kill people last year in London and the Government cut the amount of money it sends the Met.

Terrorists have attached British citizens in the streets . On London Bridge , at the Palace of Westminster and that’s before we mention the bombings and despite that we have 700 less armed police officers on the street than we did 7 years ago.

Forces also receive a counter-terrorism grant. The grant was £578m in 2010/11 dropping to £564m in 2015/16 but it rose to £633m in 17/18 . For clarity that drop is after the murder of Lee Rigby .

One of the key elements in preventing terrorism , and incidentally attacks like were seeing now , is police officers within the community. Policing , establishing relationships and gathering information. Terrorist attacks have been prevented in this very manner . That can’t be done with less numbers , surely anybody can see with less staff you’re limited as to what you can do.


I reckon this fella from Manchester said it better in 2015 when he told May at the police union conference , check out the last paragraph :




Inspector Damian O’Reilly was named Britain’s community policeman of the year in 2010, but quit his dream role after he could no longer stomach the affect of government policy.

Insp O'Reilly, who left community policing in 2012, warned that swingeing cuts to Greater Manchester Police’s funding were "cutting away at the muscle" of the force and said savings were leaving officers feeling "undervalued".

"I have worked in inner city Manchester for 15 years," Insp O'Reilly told Mrs May at a Police Federation conference in 2015.

"I felt passionate about what I was doing but in 2010 I had to leave. I couldn't take it any more because the changes that have been imposed have caused community policing to collapse.

Intelligence has dried up. There aren't local officers, they don't know what's happening. They're all reactive, there's no proactive policing locally. That is the reality ma'am."

He added: "Neighbourhood policing is critical to dealing with terrorism. We run the risk here of letting communities down, putting officers at risk and ultimately risking national security and I would ask you to seriously consider the budget and the level of cuts over the next five years.”

 

[dead_soft]

Ok, let me try something else. If you had 30,000 officers at your disposal and a spate of stabbing sand murder were causing mayhem and ruining the reputation of your City, would you a) do something or b) moan about previous cuts......

Are they mutually exclusive?

What exactly would your do something entail? Apart from rounding up certain men based on certain characteristics of their appearance

 

[Milkman]

Pete, of all the threads you're involved in here, this has to be the one where you've made yourself look the most out of touch. That's some going.

 

[peteblue]

Pete, of all the threads you're involved in here, this has to be the one where you've made yourself look the most out of touch. That's some going.

By out of touch you mean I’m on the side of the burglary victim......ok I’m out of touch.......

 

[Kurt.]

Someone ran into Home & Bargains in the Swan with a knife. No one was hurt, mind.

Maddest of tings.

It's Home Bargains ffs

 

[zzr45]

When do the schools go back?

 

[PhilM]

Intelligence has dried up. There aren't local officers, they don't know what's happening. They're all reactive, there's no proactive policing locally. That is the reality ma'am."

He added: "Neighbourhood policing is critical to dealing with terrorism. We run the risk here of letting communities down, putting officers at risk and ultimately risking national security and I would ask you to seriously consider the budget and the level of cuts over the next five years.”

Believe me, this has been wildly ignored for years now and the government do not understand the harm it is has and will continue to have.

While technological intelligence has ultimately grown rapidly over the past few decades, the real basics (the basics) have dwindled away.

Currently when do the public have any real interaction with the police except from when they've committed a crime or have been a victim?

The community have no real means of passing on their concerns or any information they have - it was this information which was the crux of it all.

Plus, even in a metropolitan area officers can be asked to cover a huge area and respond from one hub, so they don't really become familiarised.

 

[Milkman]

Believe me, this has been wildly ignored for years now and the government do not understand the harm it is has and will continue to have.

While technological intelligence has ultimately grown rapidly over the past few decades, the real basics (the basics) have dwindled away.

Currently when do the public have any real interaction with the police except from when they've committed a crime or have been a victim?

The community have no real means of passing on their concerns or any information they have - it was this information which was the crux of it all.

Plus, even in a metropolitan area officers can be asked to cover a huge area and respond from one hub, so they don't really become familiarised.

Exactly right. If the current government were looking for examples of the importance of community police work, then they needn't look further than Manchester in the 90s. Hulme, Whalley Range and Moss Side in particular were notorious for gang violence and now, walking through them, they're some of the safest parts of the city. Most people I've spoken to stress how policing changed back then. There were more on the beat, not random bag checking, but engaging with residents. Officers built up relations within the community, they saw kids grow up and saw when they were heading down the wrong path, they knew their parents and people they looked up to. Good policing is proactive, and without the numbers they're constantly playing catch-up.

That's gone now because of this disgraceful governments obsession with austerity. No sh*t violent crime is up, it's every man for himself. There's no such thing as society right?

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Terrorists have attached British citizens in the streets . On London Bridge , at the Palace of Westminster and that’s before we mention the bombings and despite that we have 700 less armed police officers on the street than we did 7 years ago.

To be fair, I'm inclined to think that's a misnomer. Policing is surely smarter than having people wandering around on the off chance that they might see or prevent a crime from taking place. Especially one as serious as a terrorist attack. It risks falling into this daft mindset that NRA advocates have that all would be fine if you had a 'good guy with a gun' there to save us all.

More police resources might be required, but I'd wager that having coppers wandering the streets wouldn't be the best way to spend it. That's a PR exercise rather than crime fighting (and I should know I've said too much)

 

[Harryflashman]

To be fair, I'm inclined to think that's a misnomer. Policing is surely smarter than having people wandering around on the off chance that they might see or prevent a crime from taking place. Especially one as serious as a terrorist attack. It risks falling into this daft mindset that NRA advocates have that all would be fine if you had a 'good guy with a gun' there to save us all.

More police resources might be required, but I'd wager that having coppers wandering the streets wouldn't be the best way to spend it. That's a PR exercise rather than crime fighting (and I should know I've said too much)

The below is verbatim from full fact , the independent fact checker site :


——

This is correct on the numbers of police officers, covering England and Wales, but armed police numbers are likely to be about 700 down on 2010—the numbers have increased significantly in the last year.

There were about 144,000 police officers at the end of March 2010, just before the general election that year. The latest figures at the time, for September 2016, put that figure at about 123,000, down roughly the amount that Labour is claiming. These are full-time equivalent figures.

The number of authorised firearms officers in England and Wales was nearly 7,000 in March 2010, according to the Home Office, and their latest published figures as at March 2016 put it at about 5,600—a fall of over 1,300. So Labour’s press release is fairly quoting the published Home Office figures.

But those figures are for more than a year ago—and there’s been a drive to train more firearms officers since then. The National Police Chiefs’ Council (NPCC) says that has added around 640 more firearms officers in the last year, as well as 41 extra armed response vehicles, and more in the coming few years.

That suggests the number as of April 2017 would be about 6,300 firearms officers. That’s a drop of about 700 officers since 2010

——

 

[Bruce Wayne]

The below is verbatim from full fact , the independent fact checker site :


——

This is correct on the numbers of police officers, covering England and Wales, but armed police numbers are likely to be about 700 down on 2010—the numbers have increased significantly in the last year.

There were about 144,000 police officers at the end of March 2010, just before the general election that year. The latest figures at the time, for September 2016, put that figure at about 123,000, down roughly the amount that Labour is claiming. These are full-time equivalent figures.

The number of authorised firearms officers in England and Wales was nearly 7,000 in March 2010, according to the Home Office, and their latest published figures as at March 2016 put it at about 5,600—a fall of over 1,300. So Labour’s press release is fairly quoting the published Home Office figures.

But those figures are for more than a year ago—and there’s been a drive to train more firearms officers since then. The National Police Chiefs’ Council (NPCC) says that has added around 640 more firearms officers in the last year, as well as 41 extra armed response vehicles, and more in the coming few years.

That suggests the number as of April 2017 would be about 6,300 firearms officers. That’s a drop of about 700 officers since 2010

——

I'm not disputing that the number of officers has gone down, just whether people walking around with a gun is likely to do much to reduce crimes. Instinctively I would hope that policing is a bit smarter than that as I can't imagine there are many circumstances where bobby's just happen to stumble upon a crime before chasing the robber through the street (accompanied by the Benny Hill theme tune or something)

 

[Harryflashman]

I'm not disputing that the number of officers has gone down, just whether people walking around with a gun is likely to do much to reduce crimes. Instinctively I would hope that policing is a bit smarter than that as I can't imagine there are many circumstances where bobby's just happen to stumble upon a crime before chasing the robber through the street (accompanied by the Benny Hill theme tune or something)

Ah sorry mate we were at cross purposes .

I think I’ll disagree with you or rather take issues with you on a couple of points . As regards firearms I think that’s right in crime prevention generally but given the guidelines for tackling armed offenders that the police face a reduction in the officers available it is an issue . Also my quoting of those figures was specific to a point Pete made about terrorism and funding where I’d say it’s absolutely an issue .

As regards your point about the police walking around stumbling across crime I think of course some cops will and some won’t but that isn’t the issue . For me the point that the police officer I quoted earlier and what Philm said was that you’re underestimating community intelligence . Firstly What the police out and about see , knowing who is who and what they up to and who with but also who with . Then you’ve got a neighbour approaching a copper saying that bloke at 43 is up to this or that or mrs jones’ son is doing this . The same people might not feel comfortable enough to actually pick the phone up though . Or maybe they’ll say something that might fill in a missing piece , that bloke quoted felt it was important enough to pull the Home Secretary up on and he seemed to have a clue about what he was saying .