Kenwright and investment

[Goat]

I agree that the transcript looks bad. I'd like to reserve judgement until I saw the full context for myself, but if Kenwright did act like that then he shouldn't have.

Should have just stopped there to be honest. You might not agree with the manner in which I made the point, but clearly you agree with the point I made. There really was no need to try and treat me like some child who doesnt know better.

I mean what the fook was all that about Elstone and his wife?? Get a grip.

It was a shareholders meeting, that means people with shares in Everton. He is the chairman of Everton, he was asked a question by a fellow shareholder, he not only declined to answer the question, but he then tried to belittle the person asking the question. A little like you have just tried to do.

But, no, it was all taken out of context. The shareholder should have known not to ask questions like that, He clearly should have asked Bill what his favourite part of the boys pen was, he maybe how happy he was when David came round for tea and talked to Jenny while making toast. Nevermind, he can save that question for next years meeting.

 

[TX Bill]

Keep Everton In Our City - Highlights of the 2009 <strike>AGM</strike> Shareholders Forum

QUESTION FROM A SHAREHOLDER…

“Looking at the record turnover…most of it from TV rights…the core business, the commercial side, stayed the same, slightly backwards; you say we’re punching above our weight how long can we go on without investment…I hear every week…I read the paper and there’s club’s being bought…if you’re looking 24/7 why haven’t we found someone……… Is one of the reasons no on has come in for Everton is that the board are asking for too much money?

Bill Kenwright…

“No”

SAME SHAREHOLDER…

“Some clubs have consortiums bidding for these clubs… Peter Trembling former commercial director, recently left the club, we’ll never find out why, within three or four months of leaving he found investors…middle east based…to buy Notts County………if Everton are for sale how much are you asking for the club?

Bill Kenwright:

“Here we go…oh please………come on”

SHAREHOLDER:

“You’re not answering the question…”

Bill Kenwright:

“I’m not answering your question…I’m bored with your question…you’re not getting an answer to the question.”


“The agenda today is all about communication. As has always been the case at Everton we stand up on every issue…nothing is off limits tonight…no sense of a closed door or a closed mind…that’s not the way Everton are…Everton are proud of the way it communicates.”

Pathetic.

On the contrary.

He needs to treat every person that asks these asinine questions with the contempt and ridicule that they deserve.

Well in Bill !!!

 

[Goat]

On the contrary.

He needs to treat every person that asks these asinine questions with the contempt and ridicule that they deserve.

Well in Bill !!!

Indeed Bill, we must protect that share price.

 

[Gazdalf]

Oh, I missed one

People who want to polarise the argument into something either being wonderful or totally useless are also always right.

Or maybe people are bringing in sarcasm as that is the way they are feeling.


There are always the people that would constantly criticise others regardless of their viewpoint, and that does not make the correct either. Have a cup of cocoa sweetie and relax.

 

[lordyefc]

Should have just stopped there to be honest. You might not agree with the manner in which I made the point, but clearly you agree with the point I made. There really was no need to try and treat me like some child who doesnt know better.

I mean what the fook was all that about Elstone and his wife?? Get a grip.

It was a shareholders meeting, that means people with shares in Everton. He is the chairman of Everton, he was asked a question by a fellow shareholder, he not only declined to answer the question, but he then tried to belittle the person asking the question. A little like you have just tried to do.

You've stated in the past on the kenwright subject that you don't care what anybody says to you, that even if proven wrong you won't change you mind. You justified this on that grounds that "that's just the way I am". We can argue like adults if you like, but that would include things like admitting when your agument relies on a fact that is later shown to be untrue.

The Elstone thing was a thing called "argument by reference to logical extremes". To be clear, you didn't at any point think that Kenwright was really obligated to answer that question, did you?

And we don't really agree. I think that, if he was rude, then he shouldn't have, that in theory the chairman of a company should always be polite and cordial to shareholders - in theory. In practice, people are human and chairmen are rude to shareholders all the time.

I don't know how rude he was, which is why I asked those present to give their opinions. But I also think that people are human and make mistakes, and being condescending to somebody asking a very leading question on a subject on which he knows that no matter what he says he'll be misquoted or taken out of context isn't the biggest crime in the world.

 

[Neiler]

Wish dave was here, hes cleverer than me. He would make sense of it all. In the meantime I will plod on alone.

His poodle Estone yapped that nothing would be "off the table" and then a few minutes/hours later The big Dog himself refused point blank to answer a question.

Its not my fault that he is constantly putting his foot in it. Everything he says is a lie. He tells us the club is for sale, that we need a billionare, then he tells the Kirkby enquiry that the club isnt for sale.

He says that he is talking to people all the time, then he says that nobody is buying clubs at the moment.

And what share price is he protecting? Please lets not pretend that we are some multi national that has a good reputation to uphold.

He was asked a question by a fellow shareholder in Everton Football Club, he felt that he didnt need to answer it. He could have got his little poodle to yap away some more, instead he felt the need to just pretend the question wasnt asked.

Well to clear up that arguement, who says the club is for sale? Is it? Probably not?

Kenwright cant sell the club, he can sell his shareholding but he cant make or force Woods, Earl or Granchester or minority shareholders to sell their shares. Thats why he talks of investment rather then a sale, so technicaly Kenwright cant say the club is for sale. Hes basicly saying he will sell his minority shareholding if someone is willing to buy it and invest in the club.

The irony is for Everton to progress you have to trust the very thing that loathes people about Kenwright his devotion to Everton and probably even more so that of Woods, Earl etc and that they have the best intrests of Everton at heart.

In actual fact Kenwright can sell his shareholding to a billionaire - who promises to pump a billion into Everton. Kenwright sells said shares, but all of a sudden Woods and Earl realising that their asset is about to sky rocket decide to keep theirs. It makes perfect buissness sense doesnt it. So IMO Kenwright isnt the impedement or his devotion isnt in question, for anyone hoping for a takeover or indeed investment you better pray that Woods and Earl and the rest of the shareholders are as devoted to the future of the club as Bill seems to be.

If you were a billionaire, would you buy would a minority shareholding in a club and invest billions in it? Didnt think so, and people wonder why other clubs get taken over before us all the time?

It always surprises me even if people do understand the shareholding situation in the club, they cant put it all together and see the obstacles and truth - its not just a matter of writing a cheuqe - yet that perception fits neatly into agendas.

 

[Goat]

He should have answered like you just have, but he didnt, he just stamped his feet like a 5 year old.

I clearly stated here that if he didnt wish to answer the question, he could have deflected it. My main point is not him answering the question, but for me, this time he couldnt even be bothered making up a soundbite, he just dismissed the question.

My view on Kenwrong wont change, ive stated time and time again, hes done a good job, with some things. But its time he went. My viewpoint is that he is stopping the sale of the club, my viewpoint is that he wishes to retain control for as long as he possibly can, my viewpoint is that he lies at every chance he gets.

Convince me otherwise and I will hail him as the greatest chairman ever, but untill you do, he remains billy bullshit.

 

[TX Bill]

I clearly stated here that if he didnt wish to answer the question, he could have deflected it. My main point is not him answering the question, but for me, this time he couldnt even be bothered making up a soundbite, he just dismissed the question.

My view on Kenwrong wont change, ive stated time and time again, hes done a good job, with some things. But its time he went. My viewpoint is that he is stopping the sale of the club, my viewpoint is that he wishes to retain control for as long as he possibly can, my viewpoint is that he lies at every chance he gets.

Convince me otherwise and I will hail him as the greatest chairman ever, but untill you do, he remains billy bullshit.

As well he should.

I think he should stick two fingers up to anyone who asks him about investment in the future.

Seriously.

 

[Goat]

Well to clear up that arguement, who says the club is for sale? Is it? Probably not?

Kenwright cant sell the club, he can sell his shareholding but he cant make or force Woods, Earl or Granchester or minority shareholders to sell their shares. Thats why he talks of investment rather then a sale, so technicaly Kenwright cant say the club is for sale. Hes basicly saying he will sell his minority shareholding if someone is willing to buy it and invest in the club.

The irony is for Everton to progress you have to trust the very thing that loathes people about Kenwright his devotion to Everton and probably even more so that of Woods, Earl etc and that they have the best intrests of Everton at heart.

In actual fact Kenwright can sell his shareholding to a billionaire - who promises to pump a billion into Everton. Kenwright sells said shares, but all of a sudden Woods and Earl realising that their asset is about to sky rocket decide to keep theirs. It makes perfect buissness sense doesnt it. So IMO Kenwright isnt the impedement or his devotion isnt in question, for anyone hoping for a takeover or indeed investment you better pray that Woods and Earl and the rest of the shareholders are as devoted to the future of the club as Bill seems to be.

If you were a billionaire, would you buy would a minority shareholding in a club and invest billions in it? Didnt think so, and people wonder why other clubs get taken over before us all the time?

It always surprises me even if people do understand the shareholding situation in the club, they cant put it all together and see the obstacles and truth - its not just a matter of writing a cheuqe - yet that perception fits neatly into agendas.

I will ask you 1 question, when you answer that I will try and address the other points you have made.

Were Earl and Woods at the Shareholders Forum?

 

[lordyefc]

My viewpoint is that he is stopping the sale of the club

See Neiler's post, and see that previous thread when *you* stated that prospective owners would demand a 100% ownership of the club.

I clearly stated here that if he didnt wish to answer the question, he could have deflected it. My main point is not him answering the question, but for me, this time he couldnt even be bothered making up a soundbite, he just dismissed the question.

He was being asked a question by somebody who clearly already had an opinion. The fact that the questioner references Notts County, a club sold for a tiny amount and with the expressed intention of being run as a sutainable business as evidence that Everton could be bought show pretty clearly which side of the fence he is on.

You got really mad at me in this thread - imagine if I did that for several years, and started making stuff up about you (I won't BTW, I get bored easy, and I've got a lousy imagination). I know you aren't chairman of a company, but human nature says you'd get fed up very quickly.

So yes, he should never be rude to a shareholder (actually, a fan, the share thing isn't that relevent. I don't care if he's rude to Robert Earl etc). But it's a minor, minor infraction.

 

[lordyefc]

Were Earl and Woods at the Shareholders Forum?

Earl was. I've seen no mention of Woods anywhere.

 

[Goat]

Well to clear up that arguement, who says the club is for sale? Is it? Probably not?

Kenwright cant sell the club, he can sell his shareholding but he cant make or force Woods, Earl or Granchester or minority shareholders to sell their shares. Thats why he talks of investment rather then a sale, so technicaly Kenwright cant say the club is for sale. Hes basicly saying he will sell his minority shareholding if someone is willing to buy it and invest in the club.

The irony is for Everton to progress you have to trust the very thing that loathes people about Kenwright his devotion to Everton and probably even more so that of Woods, Earl etc and that they have the best intrests of Everton at heart.

In actual fact Kenwright can sell his shareholding to a billionaire - who promises to pump a billion into Everton. Kenwright sells said shares, but all of a sudden Woods and Earl realising that their asset is about to sky rocket decide to keep theirs. It makes perfect buissness sense doesnt it. So IMO Kenwright isnt the impedement or his devotion isnt in question, for anyone hoping for a takeover or indeed investment you better pray that Woods and Earl and the rest of the shareholders are as devoted to the future of the club as Bill seems to be.

If you were a billionaire, would you buy would a minority shareholding in a club and invest billions in it? Didnt think so, and people wonder why other clubs get taken over before us all the time?

It always surprises me even if people do understand the shareholding situation in the club, they cant put it all together and see the obstacles and truth - its not just a matter of writing a cheuqe - yet that perception fits neatly into agendas.

Right, so what your saying is that the club can never be sold, that we are infact stuck with Kenwright forever?

Possibly not the right example, but im sure you agree that it can be done. With or without peoples true consent.

Malcolm Glazer takeover of Manchester United - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Pay attention to the chapters marked :

Increasing shareholding and Gaining control.

Im sure Phillip Green could advise the right person on how to gain control of a company.

Or failing that, this billionare could sit down the main 3 shareholders and ask them how much they want.

Liverpool Daily Post.co.uk - Everton FC - Everton FC News - Everton for sale to the right bidder

Football: Keith Harris helps with Everton sale | Football | The Guardian

Don't lose hope over Everton FC sale says deal maker Keith Harris - Everton Banter - Join the debate with EFC fans, staff writers and club legends

 

[lordyefc]

Right, so what your saying is that the club can never be sold, that we are infact stuck with Kenwright forever?

Possibly not the right example, but im sure you agree that it can be done. With or without peoples true consent.

Malcolm Glazer takeover of Manchester United - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Pay attention to the chapters marked :

Increasing shareholding and Gaining control.

United was a plc, while Everton is a Ltd company. Different laws apply. To be entitled to make a compulsory purchase of a private company, you must first obtain 90% of the shares. At present, about 25% of the shares are held by minor shareholders.

It is possible to obtain the shares, but he'd have to negotiate with enough individuals to obtain 90% of the shares, and the problem is that the buyer would have to purchase shares without being certain that he would be able to obtain them all.

That's not to say it's impossible to get a buyer who would be happy to buy only 75% of the shares. But if that person was to invest money in the club, he'd only get 75% of the value, and the rest would essentially be a gift to the other shareholders. People who would be happy with that are obviously rarer than those who would demand 100%.

 

[Goat]

So your saying that nobody can ever own 100% of Everton?

 

[lordyefc]

So your saying that nobody can ever own 100% of Everton?

I'm saying that it would be difficult and would require the consent of a significant number of minority shareholders (i.e. the fans who own a few shares each).

I imagine the question was brought up at the forum from a fan who wouldn't want to sell his share, so it's hard to know how many fans would be happy to sell.