Current Affairs Jordan Peterson

[catcherintherye]

Personally no I think communism fundamentally stifles innovation. Something akin to what the Scandinavian countries is ok, where people are looked after and there are safety nets but innovation can still thrive.

I'm not trying to get at you here mate, but in China there is loads of innovation.

 

[DuuuncanHadaPigeon]

But Marx sort of argues the opposite of concentrated power in tbe hands of a few. It's sort of the opposite of what he wants. That's what capitalism wants, and why China is a capitalist country and quite a successful one.

I'm not sure it's a disingenuous argument at all, to attribute he very things Marx argued against as being true to his vision.

I kind of agree but feel i'm going in circles. What Marx wants will never happen because eventually the power will get consolidated into the hands of a few and in communism that consolidation is more permanent and makes life for the common man much worse.

The thing is though mate, the majority of the same people saying no election now, were demanding one when Brown was elected. They are pure hypocrites. Irrespective of ideological position, you cant have any respect for hypocrisy.

I felt Brown should have called an election, and have always felt the same with each political leader who is PM. Whatever people think of my politics, at least I'm consistent.

I agree, I am not saying it is right but at least it is a rule that was decided by the members of the party. It was voted for.

I'm not trying to get at you here mate, but in China there is loads of innovation.

A lot of manufacturing sure, but innovation? I don't want to stray too far into what might be considered a conspiracy but China are involved in a lot of IP theft from the west.

 

[Yarrgh]

you forgot to highlight the bit about- "i`m ok with Geordie geezers wearing dresses as long as they don`t impinge on female only areas"
2/ Marx` ideas have been tried and they have failed miserably, they have been expanded on as "the economic principals becoming an exercise in moral philosophy".
3/ Communism etc didn`t gain any ground in 1930s simply because the western working classes didn`t fall for it. The rise in populism recently is a push-back against the socialism that is seen as the thin end of the wedge to a totalitarian system.

All your questions - why was Trump elected, Bolsanaro etc etc - i`ll answer you with a question- Have you ever heard of fifth columnists?

 

[catcherintherye]

I kind of agree but feel i'm going in circles. What Marx wants will never happen because eventually the power will get consolidated into the hands of a few and in communism that consolidation is more permanent and makes life for the common man much worse.


I agree, I am not saying it is right but at least it is a rule that was decided by the members of the party. It was voted for.

A lot of manufacturing sure, but innovation? I don't want to stray too far into what might be considered a conspiracy but China are involved in a lot of IP theft from the west.

On point 1, that's fair enough. Its subjective I suppose. I think power can be devolved. It has been in the past. People under feudalism probably felt a capitalist structure was impossible. These things feel impossible until it happens.

Point 2, she was elected by some members. That's a world away from being elected by the country though. My point was more, the people saying she doesnt have to because of Brown, were the same ones demanding an election then.

Point 3. They have very innovative companies mate. Alibaba, Tencent etc. And their growth rates are very high.

 

[DuuuncanHadaPigeon]

On point 1, that's fair enough. Its subjective I suppose. I think power can be devolved. It has been in the past. People under feudalism probably felt a capitalist structure was impossible. These things feel impossible until it happens.

Point 2, she was elected by some members. That's a world away from being elected by the country though. My point was more, the people saying she doesnt have to because of Brown, were the same ones demanding an election then.

Point 3. They have very innovative companies mate. Alibaba, Tencent etc. And their growth rates are very high.

Fair enough, I was about to start typing out a reply but it's friday afternoon and cba haha, have a good weekend.

 

[JimmyJeffers]

But Marx sort of argues the opposite of concentrated power in tbe hands of a few. It's sort of the opposite of what he wants. That's what capitalism wants, and why China is a capitalist country and quite a successful one.

I'm not sure it's a disingenuous argument at all, to attribute he very things Marx argued against as being true to his vision.

That’s what’s weird about people saying we or the US etc are turning into a Marxist/socialist state.

We are further than at any point from this happening and for many of the people that parrot this, it would likely mean an improvement in their quality of life as they should no longer be exploited

 

[coollino]

I kind of agree but feel i'm going in circles. What Marx wants will never happen because eventually the power will get consolidated into the hands of a few and in communism that consolidation is more permanent and makes life for the common man much worse.


I agree, I am not saying it is right but at least it is a rule that was decided by the members of the party. It was voted for.

A lot of manufacturing sure, but innovation? I don't want to stray too far into what might be considered a conspiracy but China are involved in a lot of IP theft from the west.

I work in IP and I'm not sure how much of that is any different to anywhere else, China is just huge. I think it's seen as more of a problem in Qatar, UAE etc

I had a quick look at an article and a lot of suggestions seem to be military etc and a decent amount of weapon technology isn't patentable. I think China have the most filed parents by far (although I think Korea may be the leader if you take population into account)

 

[catcherintherye]

Fair enough, I was about to start typing out a reply but it's friday afternoon and cba haha, have a good weekend.

You too mate!

 

[catcherintherye]

That’s what’s weird about people saying we or the US etc are turning into a Marxist/socialist state.

We are further than at any point from this happening and for many of the people that parrot this, it would likely mean an improvement in their quality of life as they should no longer be exploited

I do wonder how many of the people who make said statement have ever read any of Karl Marxs works.

 

[Charro]

I do wonder how many of the people who make said statement have ever read any of Karl Marxs works.

0%

 

[JimmyJeffers]

I do wonder how many of the people who make said statement have ever read any of Karl Marxs works.

And I wouldn’t particularly blame anyone who hasn’t as it’s extremely dense for the most part. But people could at least try to understand the concept they are flinging around and disparaging.

David Harvey does some good work on breaking it down.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

I'm not trying to get at you here mate, but in China there is loads of innovation.

When you're happy to steal IP and take a very hardline attitude on people's liberties then things can move.

 

[catcherintherye]

When you're happy to steal IP and take a very hardline attitude on people's liberties then things can move.

We can debate what has led to the innovation (I'm not sure reducing peoples liberties do) but there are some very innovative companies emerging our of China.

 

[McBain]

Marxism is fantastic.

 

[Oddball]

That’s a fair point, however, I would argue that Russia and China are in fact both super capitalist dictatorships. Russia is basically owned by the Oligarchy, and I believe China has the biggest concentration of millionaires in any country.

I’d also expand that just saying it’s better than those countries isn’t really enough for me personally. I believe that a move towards socialism in the UK would benefit a hell of a lot more people than our current trickle down capitalism does.

Its the same people pulling the strings though mate, we live under the illusion of democracy.