These guys aren’t communists. They’re billionaires
Current Affairs Jordan Peterson
- Thread starter emir
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That’s a fair point, however, I would argue that Russia and China are in fact both super capitalist dictatorships. Russia is basically owned by the Oligarchy, and I believe China has the biggest concentration of millionaires in any country.
I’d also expand that just saying it’s better than those countries isn’t really enough for me personally. I believe that a move towards socialism in the UK would benefit a hell of a lot more people than our current trickle down capitalism does.
DuuuncanHadaPigeon
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Yes you kind of prove my point, they weren't born billionaires.
Russia and China aren’t communist countries. At least not in anyway Marx envisioned
DuuuncanHadaPigeon
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I would agree they are more like dictatorships, but that is kind of my point, they become dictatorships under the illusion of communism.
DuuuncanHadaPigeon
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China is ruled by the communist party and calls itself a communist country. This 'it's now what marx had in mind' rhetoric is just a disingenuous argument imo, there never will be true communism because you will always end up with a super concentrated amount of power in a few peoples hands, as demonstrated by China today.
It’s not and never has been country that adheres to Marxist philosophy though. They can call themselves Martians if they want but that doesn’t make them little green men.
DuuuncanHadaPigeon
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one day mate you will get your marxist utopia, just have to wait for someone to bloody implement it properly, can't be that hard!
You could equally apply that to capitalism. Our current administration was voted in by 60,000 Tory voters and have been enacting reckless policies which were not in any of their manifestos. Another example would be the US Supreme Court overruling Roe vs Wade when support for it was pollinh at over 70% and public support had never dipped below 60%.
In regards to authoritarianism, it also wasn’t on the manifesto for us to allow our government to try and ban peaceful protest, or to increase stop and search allowances which have been statistically proven to disproportionately target young black men.
I didn’t say I was a Marxist though?
DuuuncanHadaPigeon
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I know I disagree with how Truss was elected but they are rules voted on in a democratic way by party members, the same happened with Brown when Blair stepped down.
Yes I don't want to ban peaceful protest either, but if enough people disagree they can be voted out and new laws put in place. It is not perfect no, but better, that's all i'm saying.
That seems fair. Out of curiosity then, would you be opposed to a democratic form of communism in which things are decided by democratic elections or referendums?
Not a loaded question, I’m just genuinely curious on what your thoughts on that would be.
But Marx sort of argues the opposite of concentrated power in tbe hands of a few. It's sort of the opposite of what he wants. That's what capitalism wants, and why China is a capitalist country and quite a successful one.
I'm not sure it's a disingenuous argument at all, to attribute he very things Marx argued against as being true to his vision.
The thing is though mate, the majority of the same people saying no election now, were demanding one when Brown was elected. They are pure hypocrites. Irrespective of ideological position, you cant have any respect for hypocrisy.
I felt Brown should have called an election, and have always felt the same with each political leader who is PM. Whatever people think of my politics, at least I'm consistent.
DuuuncanHadaPigeon
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Personally no I think communism fundamentally stifles innovation. Something akin to what the Scandinavian countries is ok, where people are looked after and there are safety nets but innovation can still thrive.
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