Current Affairs Joe Biden POTUS #46

[BlueTX]

No doubt she was the cause of her own downfall. She was unpopular to begin with and like you said she was lazy.

But yep defo doesn't help when your opponent and his support shrug their shoulders or give you the cold shoulder.

Think thats why many of the polls were off too. No one expected people to jump ship.

Anyway it is what it is and we have Biden. Hopefully his support this time show up otherwise when I hear any of them complain ill just laugh at them. Even Sanders himself. Moaning about things Trump does but doesn't seem to see the irony.

Aldo Biden/Harris 2020!

Agreed. Some of the worst (inaccurate) state polling was done in WI, MI and PA.

 

[catcherintherye]

You're referring to opposing busing, I assume?

Mainly but not exclusively yes. Kamala Harris of all people gave him a lesson in the stupidity and racism of such a belief.

As I said it shouldn't define him, but we cant re write history that he worked alongside segregationists in ways designed to help uphold aspects of segregation.

 

[BirkenheadBlue]

Mainly but not exclusively yes. Kamala Harris of all people gave him a lesson in the stupidity and racism of such a belief.

As I said it shouldn't define him, but we cant re write history that he worked alongside segregationists in ways designed to help uphold aspects of segregation.

Prefacing this by saying I think he was absolutely wrong to oppose busing.

That said, opposing busing is *not* the same as "supporting [any of the] aspects of segregation". It's disagreeing (wrongly in this instance, IMHO) on how to solve the problem of segregation.

 

[catcherintherye]

ok, I hear you.
In that case it should all be past-tense.
either way, given his more recent record with regard to African Americans, I do think it's unfair to harp back to positions he took 40 years ago.
During the debates I thought Harris was doing it for political points and that seems to be born out by her becoming his VP pick.
It'd be easier to go after him for supporting the Iraq war.
In fact there's lots to go after him for, like his support of the credit card industry, the majority of whom are HQ'd tax exempt in his state.
But here we are, he's the nomination and he's a cajillion times better than Trump.

I pretty much agree with all of that. I think the issue of 40 years go though, is to my knowledge he still hasnt accepted it was wrong.

Either way, hopefully I've been clear in why I wouldnt ultimately label him a segregationist, even though he supported aspects of segregation earlier in his career. People change and update their views. That's about as fair to Biden as I can be!

 

[catcherintherye]

Prefacing this by saying I think he was absolutely wrong to oppose busing.

That said, opposing busing is *not* the same as "supporting [any of the] aspects of segregation". It's disagreeing (wrongly in this instance, IMHO) on how to solve the problem of segregation.

I put a lot on this earlier. He worked alongside and with people, who explicitly opposed busing as a means to uphold segregation. He openly admits to doing so, and says it was a worthwhile sacrifice.

At that time, that was the game in town. It wasnt an abstract discussion. The progressives in government were trying to break the racist states and their educational segregated systems, and that was the legal and practical method they had available to them. To oppose that method, working with who he did, ultimately upheld segregationist policies.

It is a little more complex, and there are caveats but it was a poor thing for him to do. However hopefully you can see now, that while he took the decisions he did, which ultimately did strengthen segregation, to me it would be too harsh to refer to him as a segregationist.

I'm not sure he believed in segregation. I think he believed in unity between democratic factions, and in the South many/most of them were either soft or hard segregationists. I suspect he disagreed with them, but was happy to accept aspects of the policy in order for unity.

 

[Ruairi77]

People change and update their views. That's about as fair to Biden as I can be!

to be honest, that's probably enough.
He's moved left on a whole host of stuff and I think he gets that the future of the party is multicultural and progressive. He's still hell bent on working with the other side. That's admirable but it cost Obama big time from 08 to 10 when the democrats had control of both houses.

 

[BlueTX]

I pretty much agree with all of that. I think the issue of 40 years go though, is to my knowledge he still hasnt accepted it was wrong.

Either way, hopefully I've been clear in why I wouldnt ultimately label him a segregationist, even though he supported aspects of segregation earlier in his career. People change and update their views. That's about as fair to Biden as I can be!

People do change and they can learn. Especially if they are willing to listen to people on all sides. That's Biden's history. Doesn't make him correct all the time. He's certainly done things that pissed me off at the time (voting for authorization to use force in Iraq - voting for the war).

But you did ask earlier about who gets to forgive Biden re: busing, working with segregationists.

I'd say it's African-Americans and Biden will get 90% or more of their votes.

 

[BirkenheadBlue]

I put a lot on this earlier. He worked alongside and with people, who explicitly opposed busing as a means to uphold segregation. He openly admits to doing so, and says it was a worthwhile sacrifice.

At that time, that was the game in town. It wasnt an abstract discussion. The progressives in government were trying to break the racist states and their educational segregated systems, and that was the legal and practical method they had available to them. To oppose that method, working with who he did, ultimately upheld segregationist policies.

It is a little more complex, and there are caveats but it was a poor thing for him to do. However hopefully you can see now, that while he took the decisions he did, which ultimately did strengthen segregation, to me it would be too harsh to refer to him as a segregationist.

I'm not sure he believed in segregation. I think he believed in unity between democratic factions, and in the South many/most of them were either soft or hard segregationists. I suspect he disagreed with them, but was happy to accept aspects of the policy in order for unity.

I wouldn't call him a segregationist, but then I don't believe he supported segregation. He opposed one particular measure that was being used to combat it, not because he believed in segregation, but because he didn't believe it was the right way to solve the problem.

To give a (slightly facile, and obviously OTT) comparison... I don't believe that a wall should be built at the Mexican border. But I would oppose shooting Donald Trump in the head as a way to stop it. It doesn't make me a believer in the wall.

 

[Death]

The last few pages have been mad. Its all establishment did this and that but at the end off the day the majority of the voters that turned out voted for Biden.

Love him or hate him Biden had better support.. Sanders campaign team didn't do enough and given his reliance on the youth vote he was comfortably beaten. Well before the convention.

Seems to me the party didn't have to do a thing.

I voted for Sanders in the primary. My wife voted Warren.

Many of my friends and colleagues were split among Sanders and Biden. There are some Trump fans and those now undecided to. But for the left among us it was either of those. Well a few Warren also.

I don't ever recall being pressured by the party to choose Biden.

Anyone who didn't chose Biden will obviously for the most part support him. Why would anyone think we would vote 3rd party or even for a guy who rags on the left every chance he gets.

Polls or not Sanders was beat. He didn't do enough to install confidence that he could beat Trump. I would say also many Democrats remember the attitude of him and his supporters last time out too. His poor attempt to support Clinton and his supporters deciding to take their ball and go home resonates.

Yes Biden is not great. Yes he's not who many wanted but at the end of the day by turnout he won the nomination.

Go way ou’ that. The corporate media was banging the Bernie unelectable drum as soon as he won the first three states they went into overdrive. Scaring the none independent media consumers and thinkers, the type of older demographic that actually watch that garbage.

Soon as Bernie was cleaning up the first three states the media went into overdrive. I seen clips everyday when it was happening on them scumbag corporate mainstream media channels. Along with the other corporate democrats went power ranger robot mode.

But the Tory Democrats on here will call me paranoid that news organisations owned by corporations and get paid advertising from corporations aren’t full of propaganda for the politicians that take corporate bribes “ every one of them. Except sanders. Even though the propaganda is there to see in record.

It’s not a conspiracy it’s just public domain. It’s just how the system is. It’s not a mind blowing cover up or exposè

It’s out in the open and it’s how things work.

 

[catcherintherye]

I wouldn't call him a segregationist, but then I don't believe he supported segregation. He opposed one particular measure that was being used to combat it, not because he believed in segregation, but because he didn't believe it was the right way to solve the problem.

To give a (slightly facile, and obviously OTT) comparison... I don't believe that a wall should be built at the Mexican border. But I would oppose shooting Donald Trump in the head as a way to stop it. It doesn't make me a believer in the wall.

I think you're minimising what he did and getting him off on a technicality really mate.

His defence is like saying on joining the KKK you only did it because you liked wearing hoods and riding on a horse. You didnt actually Support the lynching, it was just about the sense of southern pride and camaraderie that attracted you. (This is a common defence from members, and of course its rightly called out as utter rubbish).

Everyone knows what opposing the education authority in favour of the autonomy of southern states in the 60s/70s really meant. It's a black mark against Biden and we should be honest enough to acknowledge what it meant.

 

[Death]

@catcherintherye for the win.

 

[Death]

Just in from the 16 hour shift and catching up on the Catcher. Top-o-da-range.

 

[Death]

They went to enormous lengths to stop Sanders on both occasions. Enormous lengths. Even though they knew with Clinton it would be a bit touch and go (fair enough they might not have known they would lose, but couldn't have known they could win either). Ultimately that remained secondary, stopping Sanders was critical, they would be happy to take their chances after that.

The hatred of the left, that exists in the upper echelons of both Labour and the Democratic heirachies is really underestimated. They are quite happy to risk almost everything, just to stop the left winning. They will even sabotage their own chances to do so.

We have paid a heavy cost too. Tens of thousands will have been consigned to death, millions to unemployment and misery as a result of this government here (especially post Brexit) and in America they enabled a Prime Minister to oversea and champion the slaughter of black people, and camps being built to hold children away from their families. It's an enormous price millions have paid to satisfy their ego's. They'd do it all again in a heartbeat though, if it meant stopping the left.


But yes, I do wonder if I fulfil the criteria of not being critical of Biden haha! I always find that a bit strange, it's often said to me by people who are a lot less critical of people like him than I am!

big time

 

[Death]

It was interesting to see the views of Catcher and tsubaki even though I disagreed but I'm not getting dragged in to this nonsense.

More than interesting to see the TD catchers work. I’ll agree.

If you don’t wanna talk to me then ok. I still consider you a good poster and won’t hold any bad feelings over it.

 

[SteveSC]

Go way ou’ that. The corporate media was banging the Bernie unelectable drum as soon as he won the first three states they went into overdrive. Scaring the none independent media consumers and thinkers, the type of older demographic that actually watch that garbage.

Soon as Bernie was cleaning up the first three states the media went into overdrive. I seen clips everyday when it was happening on them scumbag corporate mainstream media channels. Along with the other corporate democrats went power ranger robot mode.

But the Tory Democrats on here will call me paranoid that news organisations owned by corporations and get paid advertising from corporations aren’t full of propaganda for the politicians that take corporate bribes “ every one of them. Except sanders. Even though the propaganda is there to see in record.

It’s not a conspiracy it’s just public domain. It’s just how the system is. It’s not a mind blowing cover up or exposè

It’s out in the open and it’s how things work.

This is just garbage. Post some facts to back up your claim. I bet you can't as always. You will probably say its one man's opinion again blah blah blah. At least with Abe and his pro Sanders stance he had article after article. You on the other hand never offer proof.

Expected no less from you.

If you want to live in fantasy land, fine go ahead.

The people voted and they voted Biden. All across America. They were not forced or spoon fed. They used their brains and chose who they felt would win. Unless you are calling them all stupid again like you did months ago. Which by the reason I give you so much stick.

Call me or anyone else what you like but the reality is you continue to be out of your depth with American politics and claim conspiracy at every turn. It can't always be someone else's fault. How about you the rest of the bros and learn a valuable lesson at takr ownership for the loss. Funny thing is it seems Sanders had but his base hasn't.

Sanders lost to Biden because of his arrogance. He wanted 18 to 25 year olds and as expected they didn't turn out. That has nothing to do with establishment or the media. He as many have mentioned doesnt have appeal with other voters like Blacks. Nor was he going to draw in those whomdont want Trump who are centre leaning or to the right

You are sadly typical of his supporters. Its everyone else's fault.

Sure the first time they may have tried screwing him. This time they didn't need too.