Current Affairs Israel is an apartheid state

[Daveysgingerlovechild]

Oh dear. I think I triggered someone

Plz ban them both.

 

[RAFUH]

Plz ban them both.

They are allowed their opinions and bias.

 

[Hinchcliffe's Corner]

They are allowed their opinions and bias.

I'm in no means trying to play the ref or anything here, and I don't even read what they type anymore, but they don't argue in good faith, they ignore countless posts and have plenty of opportunities to explain themselves and don't. It seems to go against what a good forum should be about, and a forum doesn't have to be a democracy, people sign up knowing that the mods and site owners decisions are final. Up to you guys of course.



Please don't ban me x

 

[RAFUH]

@Cork Evertonian case closed.

Well that’s me told.

 

[RAFUH]

I'm in no means trying to play the ref or anything here, and I don't even read what they type anymore, but they don't argue in good faith, they ignore countless posts and have plenty of opportunities to explain themselves and don't. It seems to go against what a good forum should be about, and a forum doesn't have to be a democracy, people sign up knowing that the mods and site owners decisions are final. Up to you guys of course.



Please don't ban me x

All within the guidelines of this forum - the whole forum not just CA

Nowhere does it say you have to stay and make your case for whatever nonsense you spout.

 

[Hinchcliffe's Corner]

All within the guidelines of this forum - the whole forum not just CA

Nowhere does it say you have to stay and make your case for whatever nonsense you spout.

Yep fair enough, and it's easier to just not respond.

 

[WA Toffee]

I don't believe that to be true though. I believe that Israel do their best to try and only target Hamas members.

I'm not convinced that is true. The IDF is reportedly one of the best armed forces in the world, so it can't be gross incompetence. My belief has always been that Israel is PRIMARILY targetting legitimate Hamas targets, but with little or no regard for the civilian toll.

I can not believe that one of the best trained armies in the world "doing their best" can result in tens of thousands of civilians being killed, over a million displaced and an entire country being razed to the ground.

The simple fact is, the Israeli government do not care how many Palestinians they kill. And I can not "Stand with" any government that commits these atrocities

 

[WA Toffee]

So @Cork Evertonian is posting "sound bites" ?

Are they not factual statements? Interesting as no one is able to debate them as being untrue.

Solely accusations of him (and other logical posters) being "racist" and "anti-muslim" also with this beautifully biased and disgusting thread title for the only democratic country in the region where all kinds of people live together...

Be they:
GAY -- Executed in Palestine
LESBIAN -- Executed in Palestine
TRANS -- None in Palestine
Those with different beliefs -- HAHAHA

Gays for Palestine say the brainwashed who would be executed on arrival in Gaza.

The posters in this very thread would be gleely murdered should they throw out some of their views in the street over there.

There is NO DEBATE in this particular thread, pure hatred towards any logical and rational views which are anti-terror. It is a mob of Israel hating, clueless and brainwashed individuals all happy to insult fellow humans....while believing they are on the side of the 'just and true'.

In this thread you have persons who make constructive valid viewpoints who are then deemed to be, I paraphrase; "racist and "child murderers"...by the 'nice guys'.

This is not debate. This is hatred.

You have posted;

"So why not call out the Israeli government for their callous disregard for civilians? You have no problem calling out Hamas"

-- "CALLOUS DISREGARD FOR CIVILIANS"

Are these the same "civilians" that are part of the Hamas terror group? No? How do you tell the difference, is it the ones in hospitals or those holding hands with children who are/arent Hamas terrorists?

Perhaps its the same "civilians" cheering the mass rape and execution of innocent Israeli and foreign peaceful innocents? Could it be the "civilians" who have assisted in harbouring those kidnapped innocents?

Maybe you are referring to the "civilians" who are hiding weapons caches in and under their homes, as was also done in Lebanon? These "civilians" who have ample opportunity to direct Israeli forces to where the hostages are being held -- before they are assassinated.

Alternatively, are you referring to the "civilians" who are murdering their own people in Palestine and blaming Israel? Or those brainwashing children to want to fight Israeli's and martyr themselves, those...lets call them 'school teachers'.

Perhaps the "civilian" doctors and nurses who are claiming that Israel are murdering their 'patients' and that there are no tunnels in and under the hospitals they work in?

These so called "civilians" have to be captured, grouped together and the IDF as well as SHIN BET have to do anything necessary to obtain the information of:

A: Which of them is Hamas ?
B: Where are the remaining hostages ?

If these "civilians" are not giving up this information then clearly they are complicit.

Yes, it can be difficult to discern between Hamas members and genuine innocent civilians. Yes, some civilians will be complicit.

So it really boils down to a couple of options

1. Do we refrain from killing people until we are 100% sure they are Hamas
2. Do we just kill them all anyway

The option we see as the correct one does tell a lot about our humanity.

We know which option the Israeli government has chosen.

 

[Eidean]

I'm not convinced that is true. The IDF is reportedly one of the best armed forces in the world, so it can't be gross incompetence. My belief has always been that Israel is PRIMARILY targetting legitimate Hamas targets, but with little or no regard for the civilian toll.

I can not believe that one of the best trained armies in the world "doing their best" can result in tens of thousands of civilians being killed, over a million displaced and an entire country being razed to the ground.

The simple fact is, the Israeli government do not care how many Palestinians they kill. And I can not "Stand with" any government that commits these atrocities

The IDF conduct Pre-Strike Assessments before a strike & a BDA after it, it’s in their doctrine.

So they’re either not bothered about killing thousands of civilians in the hope of achieving a military aim or their assessments are HUGELY incorrect every single time.

Which answers the question that CA refuses to answer.

 

[d34noj]

I'm not convinced that is true. The IDF is reportedly one of the best armed forces in the world, so it can't be gross incompetence. My belief has always been that Israel is PRIMARILY targetting legitimate Hamas targets, but with little or no regard for the civilian toll.

I can not believe that one of the best trained armies in the world "doing their best" can result in tens of thousands of civilians being killed, over a million displaced and an entire country being razed to the ground.

The simple fact is, the Israeli government do not care how many Palestinians they kill. And I can not "Stand with" any government that commits these atrocities

Proportionality.

That word again. The rule of Proportionality under Customary International Humanitarian Law. Does the projected loss of civilian life outweigh the military advantage given with any particular attack.


'The proportionality rule operates as a general restraint on the conduct of parties engaged in hostilities and applies to attacks against lawful military targets located in the vicinity of civilians and civilian structures. It prohibits an attack that may be expected to cause incidental death or injury to civilians or the destruction of civilian objects that would be excessive – or disproportionate – in relation to the concrete and direct military advantage anticipated.

As such, the rule does not apply to enemy combatants or civilians who are directly participating in hostilities.'


The bolded bit is the most important bit here, IHL states that civilians actively participating or willingly aiding are in fact targets themselves - removing the rights of a civilian under Customary Law. This applies to civilian and protected structures (hospitals/schools/mosques) - if they are used as military bases, munition stores and command centres, they can be lawfully bombed if Israel are to gain a military advantage. Every other house is tunnelled into - Therefore every other house is a military target.

As for your bolded bit, no - they probably don't. Given the Palestinian support for Hamas, i'd wager they're not quite as cautious as they could be.

The IDF conduct Pre-Strike Assessments before a strike & a BDA after it, it’s in their doctrine.

So they’re either not bothered about killing thousands of civilians in the hope of achieving a military aim or their assessments are HUGELY incorrect every single time.

Which answers the question that CA refuses to answer.

As I said above - they're probably doing enough to stay out of the red under IHL, but it's not just down to Israel. Hamas have openly stated it uses civilians as human shields, in which they are complicit (martyrdom is the highest expression of jihad and Islamic belief)


Also - I notice Al Jazeera has been shut down by Fatah this time, but it's DEFINITELY not a Hamas mouthpiece.

 

[Eidean]

As I said above - they're probably doing enough to stay out of the red under IHL, but it's not just down to Israel. Hamas have openly stated it uses civilians as human shields, in which they are complicit (martyrdom is the highest expression of jihad and Islamic belief)


Also - I notice Al Jazeera has been shut down by Fatah this time, but it's DEFINITELY not a Hamas mouthpiece.

There’s tens of thousands of civilian deaths in Palestine, the human shield argument will only go so far with a % of those.

The IDF have one of, if not the best, intelligence services in the world. That also goes for ISR units within the IDF so they’ll have PFA down to a tee.

There’ll be some strikes that have military necessity but they’ve absolutely crossed that line plenty of times since October.

 

[d34noj]

There’s tens of thousands of civilian deaths in Palestine, the human shield argument will only go so far with a % of those.

The IDF have one of, if not the best, intelligence services in the world. That also goes for ISR units within the IDF so they’ll have PFA down to a tee.

There’ll be some strikes that have military necessity but they’ve absolutely crossed that line plenty of times since October.

71% of Palestinians were supportive of Hamas's attacks on 7th October - i'd assume that the percentage of complicit human shields will be around the same given the ingrained doctrine of martyrdom in Islam.

Yes, the IDF are probably the best intelligence service in the world - therefore it's safe to assume the placement of attacks are correct & not indiscriminate.


Absolutely they've crossed the lines multiple times, is there proof these were sanctioned attacks or rogue units within the IDF?

 

[Armaghtoffee]

71% of Palestinians were supportive of Hamas's attacks on 7th October - i'd assume that the percentage of complicit human shields will be around the same given the ingrained doctrine of martyrdom in Islam.

Yes, the IDF are probably the best intelligence service in the world - therefore it's safe to assume the placement of attacks are correct & not indiscriminate.


Absolutely they've crossed the lines multiple times, is there proof these were sanctioned attacks or rogue units within the IDF?

You totally contradicted yourself in those 2 paragraphs. How can the IDF be probably the best intelligence service in the world but not know of rogue units within its own army?

You can’t have it both ways.

 

[d34noj]

You totally contradicted yourself in those 2 paragraphs. How can the IDF be probably the best intelligence service in the world but not know of rogue units within its own army?

You can’t have it both ways.

You think the Aman (Israeli intelligence) are the 'men on the ground'?

Of course there will be rogue fighters within the IDF, ones who actively and purposefully kill civilians - the same as every other Army in the world.

Daniel Khalife, the British Soldier who escaped from Wandsworth was spying for Iran, British Intelligence didn't know about this. Australian soldiers were spying for Russia, British SAS were running 'hit squads' in Afghanistan and MANY MANY more, hitmen, rapes, murders, espionage the lot.

I'm sure the Aman aren't omnipresent mate, so yes I can have it both ways.

 

[Eidean]

71% of Palestinians were supportive of Hamas's attacks on 7th October - i'd assume that the percentage of complicit human shields will be around the same given the ingrained doctrine of martyrdom in Islam.

Yes, the IDF are probably the best intelligence service in the world - therefore it's safe to assume the placement of attacks are correct & not indiscriminate.


Absolutely they've crossed the lines multiple times, is there proof these were sanctioned attacks or rogue units within the IDF?

Being supportive of attacks on the 7th doesn’t = being a complicit human shield against a world power that has no problem killing them.

So we’re in agreement that the IDF have crossed the line several times & therefore have broken international law?

There has been plenty of missile strikes on residential buildings with no proof of military targets, so it’s either they’re not as good as we all thought they were or they’re not bothered at flattening buildings with civilians in.

Rogue? I severely doubt it. If the likes of Unit 8200, 504 & Aman are providing false information towards PFAs then the IDF are severely compromised.