Current Affairs Israel is an apartheid state

[tsubaki]

Interesting. Which one/s do you disagree with?

All of it. Killing Hamas, IJ, Fatah, the PLO and all the rest rather than acknowledging that the vast majority of Palestinians are the victims of ongoing persecution and discrimination and this needs to be addressed are what has led to this crisis that the Israeli state finds itself in.

I mean if they kill Sinawar today, how many people think that this will end? If they killed every Hamas member in Gaza, how many people think this will end?

 

[Deleted member 50501]

Only just seen this now. I'd sooner have an IDF commander seated at my dinner table, than i would a member of Hamas.

The Hamas man would probably take me hostage at best! As i say Israel is my friend and not Hamas.

Absolute madness. Don't know where to even begin. I'm not going to even bother linking you to the countless examples of dead babies killed by the IDF, or the rape they've engaged in in prisons, or any of the other 100s of atrocistys displayed across our phone screens.

 

[Deleted member 50501]

We have more in common with the Israeli's than we do the Palestinians. I'm sick of being told that people who are our friends are our enemies!

You just mean we look a bit more like them. Qwhite interesting

 

[Noisy noise annoys]

You just mean we look a bit more like them. Qwhite interesting

THIIIIIISSS

 

[dublinbluenose]

We have more in common with the Israeli's than we do the Palestinians. I'm sick of being told that people who are our friends are our enemies!

Can you explain this to me please? Show your workings.

 

[superblue123]

It is the bigger picture you intentionally ignore here.

You, like so many Zionists skirt around the horrors being carried out every day by the IDF and talk about Hamas and the right to defend itself. The rest of the world is referencing the actions of the IDF BEFORE October 7th and SINCE October 7th (Since then they have destroyed pretty much every school, hospital, university, ancient olive groves, vast swathes of entire cities, football stadiums, dug up roads, destroyed infrastructure, stopped aid convoys, turned off water, electric and internet, murdered many tens of thousands of innocent women and children, blown up refugee camps, markets, civilian convoys, murdered over 100 journalists, children trapped in cars, people waving white flags, shot all livestock, then they moved onto the West Bank (there was no Hamas), where they murdered many innocent civilians, claimed lands that are not theirs, destroyed villages, created police protected armed settler groups who carry out pogroms against their hosts … mate, the list is endless and anyone, absolutely anyone who sides with them is complicit in genocide)

I am not interested in the religious or ethnic/racial issues here, it is a simple question of humanity - what has happened to the people of Palestine at the hands of the Israeli people over the last 70 years is an utter disgrace. People like you cannot talk about it as you know, it is disgusting, you sweep it under the carpet and go back to bullet points that suit your narrative - same as @Cork Evertonian - he got absolutely schooled on here about the behaviour of Israel and promptly ignored it and disappeared for a while, raising his greasy head when some hostages got killed.
The world has woken up to what is happening, an intentional genocide at the hands of the Israelis, and people like you who ignore it, pretend/lie it aint happening are complicit in genocide.


Why do you (Zionisists) never talk abut the West Bank?? We all know, but I would like to hear it from you.

Ok I have pretty much included my view on Israeli actions since October 7th, which you have not reverted on but repeated what you said earlier (without the equivocation to being a silent Nazi - thanks). Interested in your response to what I actually said.

On the wider historical context, saying you are not interested in the religious or ethnic/racial issues here makes it ultimately impossible to ever reach a peace for two peoples. Jews are indigenous to the land of Israel. The Romans conquered the land of Israel and renamed it Palestine. A common point made from anti-zionists is that why immigration of Jews outside of the land of Israel pre-1948 and into Israel post-1948 via right of return is not a colonial takeover? My response is what the generational limit that should be imposed on Jews - who have kept traditions but were never able to assimilate properly into many countries (reminder 6 million Jews were killed not long ago, and many have been persecuted and kicked out of countries from many countries across the Arab world since then) - making a right of return? There has always been a Jewish presence in the land of Israel.

I'm happy to talk to the wider context too pre-October 7th (you specifically asked for my view on Israeli actions since October 7th then criticised me for not talking to pre-October 7th). Notwithstanding the historical roots and competing nationalisms of Jews and Palestinians in Israel, there is clearly a wider historical context that you have not talked to here made up of interventions from the British (Balfour) and the UN (1947 partition plan - which the Palestinians rejected), the Nakba, various wars including the 1967 war which resulted in Israel fighting a defensive war against its neighbours and obtaining land through winning a war (imagine if Hezbollah/Syria/Iran had control of the Golan Heights right now), the failure of the peace processes such as Oslo - through militant groups like Hamas carrying out suicide bombings, Rabin being assassinated, expansionary settlements and Arafat not doing enough to rein in militant groups) - and Camp David (which Arafat rejected) and violence (from the intifadas to settler violence in the West Bank). There is clearly a long historical and complex context with both sides being 'at fault' for something along the way.

On the West Bank, I am against expansionary settlements and settler violence. Just as Anti-Zionists blame Israel for helping to create conditions for Hamas to prosper - it is also true that the actions of Palestinian extremists have also contributed to the rise of a right extremism in Israel who are very adverse to a Palestinian state for security reasons, as well as demographic changes within Israel. Unfortunately some of these right extremists are now in Government where the sooner they get out the better.

 

[Noisy noise annoys]

Ok I have pretty much included my view on Israeli actions since October 7th, which you have not reverted on but repeated what you said earlier (without the equivocation to being a silent Nazi - thanks). Interested in your response to what I actually said.

On the wider historical context, saying you are not interested in the religious or ethnic/racial issues here makes it ultimately impossible to ever reach a peace for two peoples. Jews are indigenous to the land of Israel. The Romans conquered the land of Israel and renamed it Palestine. A common point made from anti-zionists is that why immigration of Jews outside of the land of Israel pre-1948 and into Israel post-1948 via right of return is not a colonial takeover? My response is what the generational limit that should be imposed on Jews - who have kept traditions but were never able to assimilate properly into many countries (reminder 6 million Jews were killed not long ago, and many have been persecuted and kicked out of countries from many countries across the Arab world since then) - making a right of return? There has always been a Jewish presence in the land of Israel.

I'm happy to talk to the wider context too pre-October 7th (you specifically asked for my view on Israeli actions since October 7th then criticised me for not talking to pre-October 7th). Notwithstanding the historical roots and competing nationalisms of Jews and Palestinians in Israel, there is clearly a wider historical context that you have not talked to here made up of interventions from the British (Balfour) and the UN (1947 partition plan - which the Palestinians rejected), the Nakba, various wars including the 1967 war which resulted in Israel fighting a defensive war against its neighbours and obtaining land through winning a war (imagine if Hezbollah/Syria/Iran had control of the Golan Heights right now), the failure of the peace processes such as Oslo - through militant groups like Hamas carrying out suicide bombings, Rabin being assassinated, expansionary settlements and Arafat not doing enough to rein in militant groups) - and Camp David (which Arafat rejected) and violence (from the intifadas to settler violence in the West Bank). There is clearly a long historical and complex context with both sides being 'at fault' for something along the way.

On the West Bank, I am against expansionary settlements and settler violence. Just as Anti-Zionists blame Israel for helping to create conditions for Hamas to prosper - it is also true that the actions of Palestinian extremists have also contributed to the rise of a right extremism in Israel who are very adverse to a Palestinian state for security reasons, as well as demographic changes within Israel. Unfortunately some of these right extremists are now in Government where the sooner they get out the better.

The historic lands clam is farcical. The early Palestinian people were there too - they didn't just arrive when some Jews were expelled. They have as much, if not more (they have been living there this entire time) claim to it as any Jew, let alone some wanna be from New York who has decided it is his homeland. As I said to Dork Evertonian - should all indigenous natives expel white settlers from USA/NZ/Australia etc?? Cos that is your "logic"


there is clearly a wider historical context that you have not talked to here made up of interventions from the British (Balfour) and the UN (1947 partition plan - which the Palestinians rejected), the Nakba, various wars including the 1967 war which resulted in Israel fighting a defensive war against its neighbours and obtaining land through winning a war (imagine if Hezbollah/Syria/Iran had control of the Golan Heights right now), the failure of the peace processes such as Oslo - through militant groups like Hamas carrying out suicide bombings, Rabin being assassinated, expansionary settlements and Arafat not doing enough to rein in militant groups) - and Camp David (which Arafat rejected) and violence (from the intifadas to settler violence in the West Bank). There is clearly a long historical and complex context with both sides being 'at fault' for something along the way.




Yes, there is a wider historical context - the Palestinians were there and the British and subsequent Jewish influx have made them second class citizens in their own lands. Naqba is correct - the catastrophe - when we decided to rip their worlds apart in favour of their now tyrannical occupiers.
I remind you of one line from the Balfour declaration: , it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine,

You are in denial I fear!

 

[superblue123]

The historic lands clam is farcical. The early Palestinian people were there too - they didn't just arrive when some Jews were expelled. They have as much, if not more (they have been living there this entire time) claim to it as any Jew, let alone some wanna be from New York who has decided it is his homeland. As I said to Dork Evertonian - should all indigenous natives expel white settlers from USA/NZ/Australia etc?? Cos that is your "logic"


there is clearly a wider historical context that you have not talked to here made up of interventions from the British (Balfour) and the UN (1947 partition plan - which the Palestinians rejected), the Nakba, various wars including the 1967 war which resulted in Israel fighting a defensive war against its neighbours and obtaining land through winning a war (imagine if Hezbollah/Syria/Iran had control of the Golan Heights right now), the failure of the peace processes such as Oslo - through militant groups like Hamas carrying out suicide bombings, Rabin being assassinated, expansionary settlements and Arafat not doing enough to rein in militant groups) - and Camp David (which Arafat rejected) and violence (from the intifadas to settler violence in the West Bank). There is clearly a long historical and complex context with both sides being 'at fault' for something along the way.




Yes, there is a wider historical context - the Palestinians were there and the British and subsequent Jewish influx have made them second class citizens in their own lands. Naqba is correct - the catastrophe - when we decided to rip their worlds apart in favour of their now tyrannical occupiers.
I remind you of one line from the Balfour declaration: , it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine,

You are in denial I fear!

I'm not sure how you can be a second class citizen of a country you are not a citizen of - and actively look to destroy it. On Israeli-Arabs living within Israel's borders, yes their lives are not perfect and i'm sure there are social and cultural prejudices against them - just like there are in any country (ala in the UK against minority communities). All are born with the right to become whatever profession they want (an Israel-Arab judge has sent Israeli Prime Ministers to jail).

 

[Ruairi77]

I am a Christian and i consider the Jewish people to be our brothers and sisters.

They overcame the persecution of the Nazis, and they will also overcome the persecution of Hamas and it's sympathisers come what may.

Would a Christian also not consider Muslims their brothers and sisters.
3 Abrahamic faiths all arguing about who's story of the same God is more important.

What I don't understand is how people who are pro Israel can support this war.
Before this war Israel had allies all over the western world.
Now, thanks to Netanyahu, they are a pariah state.

Before this war, it was impossible to criticize Israel here in the US. That's all changed now and that's not thanks to Hamas.
AIPAC are finally being seen for what they are.

I believe in Israels right to exist and a two state solution.
I dont think calling anyone who thinks this is genocide a Hamas sympathizer does Israelis any favors.

Quick question. Hamas aside, do you think Palestine has a right to self governance?

 

[Noisy noise annoys]

I'm not sure how you can be a second class citizen of a country you are not a citizen of - and actively look to destroy it. On Israeli-Arabs living within Israel's borders, yes their lives are not perfect and i'm sure there are social and cultural prejudices against them - just like there are in any country (ala in the UK against minority communities). All are born with the right to become whatever profession they want (an Israel-Arab judge has sent Israeli Prime Ministers to jail).

I’m assuming this is tongue in cheek?

It’s absolutely hideous if not

Your mask has truly slipped

 

[superblue123]

I’m assuming this is tongue in cheek?

It’s absolutely hideous if not

Your mask has truly slipped

Nope. Do explain where I am incorrect

 

[Noisy noise annoys]

Nope. Do explain where I am incorrect

No need, you have outed yourself - not that it was in much doubt.

You still have not really dealt with the following IDF actions unless you think they are just "social and cultural prejudices against them"

SINCE October 7th they have destroyed pretty much every school, hospital, university, ancient olive groves, vast swathes of entire cities, football stadiums, dug up roads, destroyed infrastructure, stopped aid convoys, turned off water, electric and internet, murdered many tens of thousands of innocent women and children, blown up refugee camps, markets, civilian convoys, murdered over 100 journalists, children trapped in cars, people waving white flags, shot all livestock, then they moved onto the West Bank (there was no Hamas), where they murdered many innocent civilians, claimed lands that are not theirs, destroyed villages, created police protected armed settler groups who carry out pogroms against their hosts.

I want you to talk about the genocide - own it.

 

[superblue123]

You still have not really dealt with the following IDF actions unless you think they are just "social and cultural prejudices against them"

I was talking about Israeli Arabs living within the Green Line borders when referring to social and cultural prejudices (ala many minorities living in communities around the world, not least here in the UK).

SINCE October 7th they have destroyed pretty much every school, hospital, university, ancient olive groves, vast swathes of entire cities, football stadiums, dug up roads, destroyed infrastructure, stopped aid convoys, turned off water, electric and internet, murdered many tens of thousands of innocent women and children, blown up refugee camps, markets, civilian convoys, murdered over 100 journalists, children trapped in cars, people waving white flags, shot all livestock, then they moved onto the West Bank (there was no Hamas), where they murdered many innocent civilians, claimed lands that are not theirs, destroyed villages, created police protected armed settler groups who carry out pogroms against their hosts.

I want you to talk about the genocide - own it.

I think I addressed this earlier:

I of course, like the majority of us do, decry any loss of innocent life in Gaza and anywhere in the world. My view is ultimately what do you expect Israel to do? It is faced with an enemy that in a strip of land that it forcibly removed its citizens from in 2005 and handed over the keys to. Once Hamas came in, they concentrated their funding on building underground rather than overground. Yes Gaza is a significantly overpopulated piece of land and Hamas have enshrined themselves within the civilian population which tragically means a pinpoint ground incursion to save hostages is impossible. It is a comment I see to easily made that Israel should be doing incursions to save hostages - I don’t see how this is feasibly possible.

Take the footage of the tunnel released today where they found the six hostages killed on the weekend. The tunnel head was in a children’s room where there were pictures of children’s characters on the wall. If Hamas are that enshrined in the population that they can build tunnels in this environment, how do you expect to Israel to act militarily?

 

[Noisy noise annoys]

For anyone interested in actual truth, the Nick Robinson interview this morning with chief prosecutor at the IOC, Karim Khan, on the Netanyahu arrest warrant is an excellent listen.

https://player.fm/series/series-1445139/the-karim-khan-international-prosecutor-one

@Cork Evertonian @superblue123 educate yourselves while looking forward to the Hague!

 

[Noisy noise annoys]

I think I addressed this earlier:

No, you didn't. You offered some fluffy, made up, sanitised situation and completely ignored what the world is seeing - standard practice for all the genocide deniers.

Why have they killed all the livestock? turned off the water, stopped medicines, blown up empty schools, universities, hospitals, murdered 100 journalists, why flatten ancient olive groves? raping prisoners? human shields?

The most advanced army in the world cannot distinguish between a child and a hamas operative?

We can see straight through you - openly supporting genocide, like, on a public forum - impressive balls tbh