Current Affairs Israel is an apartheid state

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I'm sure the Palestinians regard the Israeli government as terrorists if you go by the actual definition of terrorism. Nelson Mandela was considered a terrorist at one point and spent 27 years in jail for it. You can't apply the same rule to the oppressed and the oppressors because they are operating under very different conditions.

You mention the Iron Dome and the situation Israel would be in without it. But firstly, the have it and secondly the situation wouldn't be what it is without it as they wouldn't be able to carry on smacking Palestine down if they were having the same number of citizens killed as Palestine are. A ceasefire would be found much quicker if the militarily playing field were more even. Israel having the Iron Dome and the backing of the USA means they can basically do what they want and escalate things to whatever level they want.

Not knowing the answer doesn't mean people should just sit back and not talk about it. You yourself have done exactly what you are complaining about. It's a horrendous situation and the more people talking about it brings attention to it and hopefully leads us to a quicker resolution of this specific situation. And then hopefully leads to meaningful talks to try and find a long lasting, stable peace.

I don't dispute that. As I said, my post wasn't to defend the actions of the Israeli government or forces over the past few weeks or past decades that this has been going on. I'm also not saying people shouldn't talk about it. But the whole bandwagon jumping is what annoys me, when it's treated like it's black and white - and it isn't a black and white situation.

Are you comparing Nelson Mandela to Hamas? A man, and movement, fighting for racial equality, and an extremist Islamist organisation? Yes, I can apply different rules I think.

The point of having the Iron Dome is clearly because of this threat. Now, whether that threat would be there at all if Israel took a more reasonable approach is obviously what we don't know but hopefully will know in the future - they shouldn't need, or want, to have something like that. But just saying 'oh it's fine if Hamas fire rockets, because Isreal have the defences' - as you've done there, or at least implied - isn't exactly the answer either is it?

I hope there can be peace and I'll reiterate again, I think what the Isreali government do and has done is horrid, evil, whatever you want to call it. But I don't think Hamas would be the best solution for peace in Palestine either... Now the answer is definitely not Israel, but in my mind that doesn't make the solution an extremist organisation.
 
You are ignoring why they need a defence system.
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I'm well aware of that map and have seen it many times.

Please read my post again and if you're taking that as a defence of Israel then I'd suggest you need to start reading things more carefully.

I think what they're doing is wrong. I don't think any country should want or need to have a defence system like they do. But just because they have it, doesn't make it okay that Hamas can ping rockets over, just like it doesn't make it okay that Israel can go and destroy what they want either.
 
A threat to who other than apparently Israel..

They're only terrorists to Israel. To A LOT of others they are freedom fighters.. You know how people wear t-shirts with Che Guevara on?
I've literally listed the governments and organisations that view them as terrorists. By your logic, the IRA was only a threat to Britain and Ireland? Were they not terrorists?

What, middle class students thinking they fit in by doing so?
 
I hope there can be peace and I'll reiterate again, I think what the Isreali government do and has done is horrid, evil, whatever you want to call it. But I don't think Hamas would be the best solution for peace in Palestine either... Now the answer is definitely not Israel, but in my mind that doesn't make the solution an extremist organisation.


F.F.S.

Absolutely nobody thinks Hamas is the solution. Nobody thinks Hamas are heroes. Nobody on this thread supports Hamas. Condemning Israel for wiping out innocent kids and civilians isn't the same thing as supporting Hamas. How many effing times does it need to be said?
 
F.F.S.

Absolutely nobody thinks Hamas is the solution. Nobody thinks Hamas are heroes. Nobody on this thread supports Hamas. Condemning Israel for wiping out innocent kids and civilians isn't the same thing as supporting Hamas. How many effing times does it need to be said?

I didn't actually suggest anyone in this thread had done that?
 
I'm well aware of that map and have seen it many times.

Please read my post again and if you're taking that as a defence of Israel then I'd suggest you need to start reading things more carefully.

I think what they're doing is wrong. I don't think any country should want or need to have a defence system like they do. But just because they have it, doesn't make it okay that Hamas can ping rockets over, just like it doesn't make it okay that Israel can go and destroy what they want either.
I just struggle when people see that map and ask why the Palestinians attack Israel I mean, what should they do?
Damn right Israel should have the Iron dome, they have made their bed.
 
I just struggle when people see that map and ask why the Palestinians attack Israel I mean, what should they do?
Damn right Israel should have the Iron dome, they have made their bed.
I don't think either side should attack either. I also don't think Israel should have aggressively expanded as they did and know they only did so because they had the backing of the west.

All it does is punish innocent people in Palestine and Isreal, however.
 
I didn't actually suggest anyone in this thread had done that?


Then what exactly are you saying? You came in prattling on about bandwagons and your long winded posts have been huge efforts in saying nothing. For instance:

Now the answer is definitely not Israel, but in my mind that doesn't make the solution an extremist organisation.


Where has anyone suggested this? We're simply in here condemning the obvious, a global superpower bombing the innocent civilians and kids of an tiny, oppressed nation into the dirt. If you think it's a bandwagon then just go to another thread.
 
I don't think either side should attack either. I also don't think Israel should have aggressively expanded as they did and know they only did so because they had the backing of the west.

All it does is punish innocent people in Palestine and Isreal, however.
Agreed. It is inevitable though, that if you do what they have done, the oppressed will fight back.
It has happened throughout history, rebels attacking the colonisers and usually, they are the heroes against the villains. The media and propaganda has many thinking that the Palestinians are the villains of this piece, history will show otherwise.
 
Then what exactly are you saying? You came in prattling on about bandwagons and your long winded posts have been huge efforts in saying nothing. For instance:




Where has anyone suggested this? We're simply in here condemning the obvious, a global superpower bombing the innocent civilians and kids of an tiny, oppressed nation into the dirt. If you think it's a bandwagon then just go to another thread.
There is a world outside of GOT. I actually specifically mentioned some of the people jumping on the protests. Go on Twitter, and it's loads of people saying 'Free Palestine' (fine, all for it - though we need a solution don't we?) and then justifying that it's just 'the oppressed fighting back', etc etc.

You're a smart guy. It's not hard to grasp.

Not once have I mentioned this thread or anyone in it. I came in here to speak about the subject, which I'm allowed to do on a forum. I'll stress again, I don't like what Isreal do and are doing and have been doing. I think it's wrong, on every single level. I don't like what Hamas do either. I think I have more of a basic understanding of the subject than some people I've seen (not on here, to be absolutely crystal bloody clear), as I put it, 'jumping on the bandwagon', or saying that everything is black and white, that Israel are evil and everything they do is evil etc.
 
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Agreed. It is inevitable though, that if you do what they have done, the oppressed will fight back.
It has happened throughout history, rebels attacking the colonisers and usually, they are the heroes against the villains. The media and propaganda has many thinking that the Palestinians are the villains of this piece, history will show otherwise.
I don't think that either side can claim to be wholly right or wholly wrong in this instance.

Isreal's aggressive expansion and treatment of Palestine is disgusting and has been known to be disgusting for some time. Do I wish other governments, the precious EU and us and the US etc would go in and help establish peace? Absolutely. I absolutely wish that would happen.

I also have a feeling that, let's say Israel weren't quite so aggressive in their treatment and expansion, and Palestine still had more of the land it used to. I still think that if Hamas were in in that situation, then there'd be tensions, because it's an extremist group and they tend to do extreme things.

Hopefully all of this is resolved peacefully (now) and with compromise by Israel, because there needs to be. Will that lead to long standing peace? Probably not, but it might be a start. Hamas lobbing rockets over the border doesn't solve anything does it, because Isreal have more weapons, more tech and will crush them. All Hamas have done is cost more lives by doing this. For all of the despicable things Israel do and have done against the Palestinians, if they indiscriminately started firing rockets over without any provocation, I'd like to think there'd be severe condemnation. As they can claim that it was retaliation, then it allows other nations to turn a blind eye.
 
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