Current Affairs Israel is an apartheid state

[Yarrgh]

Can’t see any sense or reasoning breaking out in that part of the world in the next foreseeable 5-10 years.

Nothing is going to stop Israels revenge against Hamas. What we’ve seen so far is just the start of it. When the dust settles then maybe people of that region will be sick and tired of killing each other and start to explore alternative methods of peace and reconciliation.

Once Hamas are defeated there’s no way Netanyahu and his buddies can stay in power due their monumental intel failure.

Normal moderate Israelis will start to question why this happened and how do we find peace. The only answer they could arrive at is the acceptance of a free autonomous Palestinian state. However that epoch moment is some years away and sadly an awful lot of innocent people are going to die before then.

You write a lot of sense. I just wish we could fast forward to the end paragraph without having to go through all the stuff before it.

 

[mightymoyes]

these idiots tie themselves in knots by being pro-israeli war crimes but anti-russian war crimes at the same time

 

[Martin Alvito]

The problem with an issue like this is that there isn't a black and white answer to it, it's all different shades of grey, and in a world where nuance is gradually getting eroded away, it makes civil and sensible discourse on subjects like this exceedingly difficult

The Israeli government has done and continues to do horrible things

However, Hamas are not the good guys

You kind of need to accept that there are no good guys in this, just aggressors (the respective governments) and survivors (the Palestinian and Israeli people who are mostly sick of all this and just want peace so that they can get on with their lives without worrying about what's going to happen tomorrow)

It's like Game of Thrones. There are no good guys. Every once in a while, one like Ned Stark comes along, but they tend not to last long and meet bad ends.

 

[Yarrgh]

It’s a strange old thing with Hamas and the people of the Gaza Strip. Do the populace view them as their defenders and protectors and love them, or as the bringers of bombardment, death and destruction to the Palestinians and hate them……

Right now probably the latter. Before their barbarism and terrorist acts that unleashed the current hell, then looked at more favourably.

I imagine that Hamas have zero future as any right minded Palestinian would realise that it will be impossible to move on from this with them still in existence.

 

[peteblue]

You think that there is one answer to this? Either / Or ?

Not really, but my guess would be that Hamas still enjoys popular support…

 

[peteblue]

Right now probably the latter. Before their barbarism and terrorist acts that unleashed the current hell, more favourably.

I imagine that Hamas have zero future as any right minded Palestinian would realise that it will be impossible to move on from this with them still in existence.

You would hope so, but god only knows…..

 

[Blue 1]

It is helpful when trying to make sense of it to remember that Israelis are bought up being told that the world hates them and that they face permanent existential threat, and that most Palestinians only experience of Jewish people is IDF soldiers kicking their doors in at midnight, taking their family members away, having them looking down the barrel of a gun at them, harassing them at checkpoints, bombing them, and making their lives miserable, or settlers trying to steal their homes, throwing faeces at them, burning their farms etc.

They don't have the ability to view things as we do over here.

 

[Spadge Vernacular]

This makes no sense Iran are supplying Russia with weapons/drones if Iran gets involved in a conflict with Isreal then Russia will lose a key part of their supply.. Iran are likley involved but not being sponsored by Russia.
An Iran Isreal war would be a nightmare scenario for Russia in Ukraine.

Iran is denying and will deny involvement. They have been in constant contact and active with both Russia and Hamas during the two years of planning the weekend's atrocity.

Russia will have had more sway with Iran before relying upon them for weapons to support their invasion of Ukraine but now Iran will have a stronger voice. This Russian reliance is in part because Russia has been isolated from the West due to its war on Ukraine. They have a strategic alliance with Iran and so planning on such matters, especially weakening the West, actions to weaken the West's support for Ukraine will be tactical considerations.

The US has already started delivering weapons to Israel. Will that impact their ability/desire to supply both Ukraine and Israel, especially if Israel is pulled into a wider conflict, probably. Would Putin see this as a positive if somewhat risky move, well that is up for each to decide for themselves but I believe so. Will Hamas and Iran have discussed plans in meetings with Russia over this last year- I believe so. An actor doing something crazy and horrific could see them isolated (i.e. Russia) so sign-off will have been required with key partners. Hamas is saying they didn't tell their allies in other Palestinian factions, as well as in Hezbollah, Iran, and Russia until 30 minutes after the attack began. I'd say that is scripted and they all knew, after all, Iran fund Hamas to the tune of $100 million per year if reports are correct and they would not want to lose this.

There is a much bigger geopolitical game of chess in play and it will be no surprise to find that the Hamas foot soldiers and the poor people of Gaza have been used as expendable pawns.

 

[Drico]

I was literally just about to ask you what the viewpoint is over there..

Germans feel the weight of history. They feel that they have a special obligation to Israel. This is admirable. However, this "special obligation" is dangerously close to acting as an invisibility cloak for human rights abuses in Gaza. I sympathise with the Germans on this issue: they cannot win whatever they do.

But this is not about them.

As a result, take what they say on this subject with a huge pinch of salt. Most of the rest of the EU are insisting that humanitarian aid continues to the Palestinian authority. To cut it would be to further undermine them and bolster Hamas, not to mention grievously abandon innocent civilians.

I suspect the German government's pro-Ukraine/pro-Israel stance - which many will see as contradictory - will explode in their faces when it comes to taking the public with them on further aid to Ukraine. Germans have made a lot of sacrifices to date - the economy is suffering, energy prices have rocketed, and the country is the biggest provider of aid to Ukraine after the US - but this will certainly lead to serious questioning.

 

[Yarrgh]

Iran is denying and will deny involvement. They have been in constant contact and active with both Russia and Hamas during the two years of planning the weekend's atrocity.

Russia will have had more sway with Iran before relying upon them for weapons to support their invasion of Ukraine but now Iran will have a stronger voice. This Russian reliance is in part because Russia has been isolated from the West due to its war on Ukraine. They have a strategic alliance with Iran and so planning on such matters, especially weakening the West, tactics to weaken the West's support for Ukraine will be tactical considerations.

The US has already started delivering weapons to Israel. Will that impact their ability/desire to supply both Ukraine and Israel, especially if Israel is pulled into a wider conflict, probably. Would Putin see this as a positive if somewhat risky move, well that is up for each to decide for themselves but I believe so. Will Hamas and Iran discussed in meetings with Russia over this last year- I believe so. An actor doing something crazy and horrific could see them isolated (i.e. Russia) so sign-off will have been required. Hamas is saying they didn't tell their allies in other Palestinian factions, as well as in Hezbollah, Iran, and Russia until 30 minutes after the attack began. I'd say that is scripted and they all knew, after all, Iran fund Hamas to the tune of $100 million per year if reports are correct.

There is a much bigger geopolitical game of chess in play and it will be no surprise to find that the Hamas foot soldiers and the poor people of Gaza have been used as expendable pawns.

What did some evil dictator say, 1 person dead is murder, thousands are statistics. Those organising these events are far away and are truly evil in their intent and actions.

 

[LostLegend]

Still lots of suggestion around of a ground offensive as well to follow up the bombing.

The IDF are known to be trigger happy as it is when it comes to the Palestinians, but now you potentially have them and all the reservists going in with a haze of pure anger at the Hamas atrocities (understandably) but with a civilian populace who, far from being pacified, are being bombed seemingly indiscriminately and cut off from essential supplies like water and electricity.

It has the potential to get very bloody.

 

[Mutzo Nutzo]

one of their biggest industries is arms dealing, plus centuries of history says they're evil

Think I will have to beg to differ on that one

 

[Spadge Vernacular]

A further thought re the above and Israel bombing Syrian airports out of the blue. Could it be:

1. Israeli's are crackers.
2. Israel have identified that Tehran is flying weapons/people into Syria to ship over the border for the likes of Hamas.
3. Both of the above

 

[LostLegend]

Journalist @azaizamotaz9 just arrived to document the latest Israeli massacre in Gaza only to find out the victims are 15 of his family members.
Israel’s extermination campaign in action.

Spoiler

 

[Martin Alvito]

You write a lot of sense. I just wish we could fast forward to the end paragraph without having to go through all the stuff before it.

It's a lot easier for us to make sense of it from the outside, than it is from the inside. The Senate vote to invade Afghanistan was 98-0. If there was anyone opposed to that war in September of 2001, I never met them.

It took some time before it was evident that our policy of regime change had failed, and longer for us to withdraw. Now, I could argue that we win that war if we don't open a second front in Iraq for a whole host of reasons, but if we had won for good we would have been the first. The British Empire broke its teeth over there repeatedly, and we all know how the Soviet invasion ended.

Wars have an inertia to them that is difficult to overcome. Economies retool around them, humans fall prey to the sunk cost fallacy and the politicians that started/voted for them do not benefit from admitting failure.