Current Affairs Israel is an apartheid state

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If you can condemn one side without condemning the other then you're a hate monger. What Hamas did is disgusting. What the IDF have been doing for yers and are doing now is downright deplorable.

People always expose themselves at times like these and it looks like someones making a right mess of himself in here. The hypocrisy is shameful.

Think this is about right. I’m not geopolitically aware enough to have a well thought through position here.

It’s heartbreaking to see civilians being ruthlessly targeted. Awful to see the Israeli intention to lay indiscriminate siege to Gaza. Shocking to see the Hamas threats to start executing hostages.

The whole situation just has a paralysing effect on my thought process, and leaves me distressed and dumbfounded.
 
Israeli artillery are now pummelling Gaza.
They must be pretty confident of the location of any living hostages.

What a desperately tragic situation for for the ordinary Palestinian trying to make the best of their crappy cards.

Trapped in an open air prison, living in a ramshackle house with no power, no water, running out of bread that's do the oppression of the people who have taken more and more of their land.

On top of that, betrayed by a group of their own people doing the bidding of others over a thousand miles away for a few dollars and a shot at those virgins on paradise.

I cannot imagine what it's like to be sat at home, hearing the explosions going off knowing a 100kg artillery shell can come through your roof next.
 
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It’s an interesting point. Not in any way trying to be a Hamas apologist here, what they did was frankly horrendous, but the ‘rape’ allegations that have suddenly cropped up don’t seem to match with the speed and ferocity of the attack itself.

The sources seem somewhat dubious as well.


The 'German girl' also had an Israeli passport and moved there a few years ago. the Israeli side were really pushing the German citizen/tourist aspect for obvious reasons
 
You have two entities in Palestine and Israel.

Then you have a terror group that murders both Palestinians and Israelis.

Its not so simple as to hate either palestine or israel.

Hamas is not on anyones side but their own.



Again, wtf does this have to do with Hamas?

I could easily say YES israels idf and leadership that claim to want peace has done terrible things and also different groups in palestine that claim to want peace have done terrible things.

There is no side to take here for me because (as ive stated) i have no position in favour of either palestine or israel because i do not know the exact views of a number of the leadership from the groups in palestine or israel (there is also so much disinformation its impossible to know unless youre in that circle).

The ONLY thing i am commenting on is Hamas.

People seem to think Hamas is on the side of Palestine. It is not.
No, Hamas is not on the side of Palestine or of anything good, human and decent. We agree.
Where we differ is where your preferred solution is to ignore the peaceful ordinary Palestinian people and have Israel raze their homes and everything else to the ground.
Israel has every right to defend itself against these appalling barbaric terror groups but where / when has it thrown its resources on supporting a Palestine that can govern itself in peace without interference from Hamas et al. Instead it occupies land illegally and helps create a climate of fear and anger.
You cannot ignore the ordinary Palestinian in any discussion on this terrible situation.
 
They must be pretty confident of the location of any living hostages.

What a desperately tragic situation for for the ordinary Palestinian trying to make the best of their crappy cards.

Trapped in an open air prison, living in a ramshackle house with no power, no water, running out of bread that's do the oppression of the people who have taken more and more of their land.

On top of that, betrayed by a group of their own people doing the bidding of others over a thousand miles away for a few dollars and a shot at those virgins on paradise.

I cannot imagine what it's like to be sat at home, hearing the explosions going off knowing a 100kg artillery she'll can come through your roof next.
What it's like is living without hope, then realising the only way out is to fight back, by any means.
The Israelis are creating the next band of martyrs.
 
None of that is relevant to what I posted. Ignoring the fate of the non terrorist ordinary Palestinians is only seeing one viewpoint.

Your own ranting has backed you into a pitiful intellectual corner. Reduced to ignoring people.

You seem to be under a belief here that this is a Palestine and Israel issue.

Hamas does not care about Palestine at all or Palestinians.

They are funded by 3rd party's e.g $100mil from Iran only a couple of years ago. They have been getting $40-60mil annually from iran since they were formed in the late 80s.

If posters (like me) slate Israel OR slate Palestine...neither has any relevance to Hamas.

Hamas does not discriminate they will kill palestinians and jews.

If there is war there is fear, Hamas lives for fear and never wants peace. It does not serve them or their paymasters interests.

Of course any person of concience will be horrified about Palestinians being hurt, wounded, killed.

They should feel the same about those affected by the attack on israel -- MANY in this thread are clearly not.

Hamas it is important to remember are not going to help Palestinians, only themselves.

Acknowledged by whom?

Nobody that matters is going to acknowledge what the state has done is wrong. Nobody with genuine clout on the world stage is going to, particularly after the last few days.

It's a complete mess and that's all their is to say about it really.

It's NOT getting 'fixed' with an admission of guilt for past crimes.

I half expect Gaza to be razed to the ground once they get back the living hostages (if their are any) and then the full focus of the Israeli leadership will then be on the West Bank and Southern Lebanon. (By the way, the majority of Lebanese would like nothing more than Hezbollah to be next in the firing line, they're a major reason that stunning beautiful country is on the bones of its arse.)

Not every woe is me tale coming out of the levant region is down to Israeli brutality. Some is, plenty isn't.

As Zat has said, Hamas are an internationally recognised terror organisation. The Israelis use that label as fair game. You're either openly against Hamas or you're obviously with them. There's no keeping your head down and trying your best to get on with your day. They don't deal in grey area. (Particularly this current Israeli government with an equally bloodthirsty loon at the wheel)

The most crackers thing about it all? It's all stemmed from some made up magic man in the sky and what version of his series of short stories you believe.

How messed up is that?

Thats the key...how many Palestinians or those civilians from other nations support either Hamas or Hezbollah? How many 'locals' are scared of them and suffer because of them.

Alot in here seem to be either:

A: Claiming they are doing this for the Palestinian people (when they are not).

B: Using A to deflect onto Israel.

The only fact here im stating is as you posted, Hamas is a terror group and youre either with them or against them.

Nothing more, nothing less.
 
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