Current Affairs Israel is an apartheid state

[magicjuan]

Said this further up the thread, but I fear they may be creating something far worse.

The speed of the propaganda and the 'tone' to it is worrying. We've seen it before with Nayirah and her incubator story. Flying the Israeli flag? What's all that about.
We're being ramped up for a bigger war.

 

[Alan Whittle]

You seem to be under a belief here that this is a Palestine and Israel issue.

Well…..yes.

 

[Daveysgingerlovechild]

You dont have any idea do you...

...cant answer my question.

So YOU dont know.



Again, Hamas is not Palestine. It is is terror group.

Im not "avoiding". I dont have enough information on the PLO leadership or FATAH, Hezbollah or muslim brotherhood to see which parts of which group are in favour of what.

Better to stick to what I know about which is Hamas. Where i dont need to know about individuals and their views...same with Israel...

To have an informed opinion you need to know all the players in the game.

So as in my opening sentence, id rather focus on the actual terror group thats sole purposes are to destroy israel and and kill all jews.

The one funded by the axis of evil.

Literally the group who murdered and kidnapped all those innocent people.

How on earth can you carp on with, what looks to me, a strident opinion whilst arguing you can't do so without knowing all the players in the game.

I think you mean well, but you're demonstrating the coherence and intellectual clarity of a beanstalk here Zat.

 

[BNJ1878]

The Israelis are creating the next band of martyrs.

Quite possibly. They'll worry about that later. Rinse and repeat.

You're either with them or against them.

Nothing more, nothing less.

I typed that from an IDF point of view, it's not what I personally believe.

The majority would like nothing more than for Hamas to just disappear.

From the Israeli perspective you either betray a fellow Palestinian or you're just as guilty.

Fom a Hamas perspective if you're a traitorous collaborator you'll suffer far more than at the hands of the IDF or whatever goon catches you at the checkpoint.

Population of 2 million, there is absolutely no justification for razing it. It's a war crime

True enough, doesn't seem to bother them of the international leaders too much though, does it?

 

[Zatara]

So you don't condemn the IDF for their actions. Ok, now stop calling people Hamas supporters with zero evidence or people can rightly call you an IDF supporting scumbag.

Another who doesnt seem to understand that this is not an ISRAEL vs PALESTINE issue.

You either support Hamas or you dont its that simple. There is no middle ground here.

Anyone who knows about the whole palestinian and israel situation even a little knows this.

How or why would i support Palestinians being killed when im against all of the multi cultural people being killed by Hamas.

I mean its not rocket science.

No, Hamas is not on the side of Palestine or of anything good, human and decent. We agree.
Where we differ is where your preferred solution is to ignore the peaceful ordinary Palestinian people and have Israel raze their homes and everything else to the ground.
Israel has every right to defend itself against these appalling barbaric terror groups but where / when has it thrown its resources on supporting a Palestine that can govern itself in peace without interference from Hamas et al. Instead it occupies land illegally and helps create a climate of fear and anger.
You cannot ignore the ordinary Palestinian in any discussion on this terrible situation.

Ive not said that Israel should attack Palestinian civilians. Nowhere have i said this. I dont agree with this.

What ive said is Hamas should be wiped out.

Ive said Palestinians need to help to focus on finding Hamas. That helps them and Israel.

With Hamas many will be frightened of them so its not straighrforward for a civilian to speak up.

What i did say was israel wont and the leadership cant try for an immediate peaceful solution.

Israeli leadership will need to appear strong (for their people and their enemies) and to do so they need to attack hamas.

Its like the taliban hiding in peoples homes in this case tunnels underground instead of caves...hospitals etc.

Its not simple.

It will lead to some palestinians turning to hamas etc and others hating them.

There is no simple solution which will occur here.

 

[Runub]

FUBAR

 

[The binman chronicles]

You cannot ignore the ordinary Palestinian in any discussion on this terrible situation.

This is at the forefront of my mind, those poor people whose leadership have taken decisions that would always lead to simply using them as cannon foder. I don't have answers to what in reality would work because in all probability nothing would, but this course was simply one of the worst they could have possibly taken.

I hate what Israel are doing but in the end they can't simply ignore the massacres, hostage taking and missiles being chucked their way. You'd hope for a measured response, but other than telling them to leave their homes yesterday it seems anything is fair game. With this and Ukraine and other conflicts around the world showing the absolute worst in humanity if it ever did come to a global extinction event I would at least have something to look on the bright side.

 

[Noisy noise annoys]

No.

Exactly! People like you ignore the cause and focus on the result

 

[coollino]

Weird for a HAMAS EXPERT

 

[DavidH]

Another who doesnt seem to understand that this is not an ISRAEL vs PALESTINE issue.

You either support Hamas or you dont its that simple. There is no middle ground here.

Anyone who knows about the whole palestinian and israel situation even a little knows this.

How or why would i support Palestinians being killed when im against all of the multi cultural people being killed by Hamas.

I mean its not rocket science.

I don't support Hamas. Do you support the IDF?

I don't mean to state the obvious here but as someone who actually knows a little about the situation I can confirm that this absolutely IS an Israel v Palestine issue. The IDF aren't attacking Hamas militants on a daily basis, they're encroaching onto Palestinian land, kidnapping innocent Palestinians, assaulting innocent Palestinian worshippers, murdering innocent Palestine kids and journalists, bulldozing innocent Palestinians homes I could go on.

Put the turps down and log off for the night.

 

[Billy Dean]

which was correctly described as a war crime when the Russians used it on Kherson

I as it described as such when the US used it on Fallujah? The consequences there were devastating

 

[coollino]

So if you support Irish independence does it mean your support all of the IRA bombings?

 

[tsubaki]

The speed of the propaganda and the 'tone' to it is worrying. We've seen it before with Nayirah and her incubator story. Flying the Israeli flag? What's all that about.
We're being ramped up for a bigger war.

I don’t think so, a lot of this (especially here and in the EU) sounds like the reflexive please-the-lobby statements, from politicians and hacks who lack the understanding required to deal with this in a way that would help Palestine and Israel.

That idiot announcing EU aid to Palestinians would be stopped earlier for example (which various countries have walked back now, thankfully), or Zelenskiy whose initial support might fade when he realises the ammunition hos country desperately needs is going to be randomly fired into Gaza in a doomed attempt to save Bibi.

It doesn’t help of course that leaders across the West are vulnerable to lobby pressure either, especially Sunak and Biden. Israel needs good friends, not stupid ones.

 

[Zatara]

Well…..yes.

It isnt an Israel Palestine situation with Hamas' actions.

Hamas doesnt care about Palestinians having peace or the best lives they can have. So if it is not on the side of Palestinians and it hates Israel its on its own side isnt it?

So its not a Palestine Israel situation its a Hamas situation -- in the same way it wasnt an Afganistan vs US situation.

It was a US vs Taliban situation.

Taliban didnt care about afgan locals who wanted education and peace...neither does Hamas.

How many in Afganistan hate(d) the taliban...same for Hezbollah and Hamas.

Quite possibly. They'll. Worry about that later. Rinse and repeat.


I typed that but it's not what I believe.

The majority would like nothing more than for Hamas to just disappear.

From the Israeli perspective you either betray a fellow Palestinian or you're just as guilty.

Fom.a Hamas perspective if you're a traitorous collaborator you'll suffer far more than at the hands of the IDF or whatever goon catches you at the checkpoint.


True enough, doesn't seem to bother them of the international leaders too much though, does it?

Yes thats what i wrote in a different post.

Locals will be scared of hamas so its not simple to expect them to help locate them (which is what most we would expect) would want.

For Israel as you say, with them or against them.

What ive also said is i cant comment on israel palestine because who knows what is really going on with individuals on each side?

Huge level of fear for Palestinians caused by both Hamas and Israel. Theyre trapped between suffering whichever way they turn.

Its not simple for them as all paths currently lead to pain....the only simple thing is to remove Hamas and hope things change with wiser heads.

The international community cant ignore Palestinians suffering. It can while there is a terror group there.

 

[magicjuan]

I don’t think so, a lot of this (especially here and in the EU) sounds like the reflexive please-the-lobby statements, from politicians and hacks who lack the understanding required to deal with this in a way that would help Palestine and Israel.

That idiot announcing EU aid to Palestinians would be stopped earlier for example (which various countries have walked back now, thankfully), or Zelenskiy whose initial support might fade when he realises the ammunition hos country desperately needs is going to be randomly fired into Gaza in a doomed attempt to save Bibi.

It doesn’t help of course that leaders across the West are vulnerable to lobby pressure either, especially Sunak and Biden. Israel needs good friends, not stupid ones.

You missed out the most crucial element, money. The western economy is on its arse and needs something to kickstart it again...