Isolated Players (Front Page Article)

[JJK]

I don't think Bolasie has a bad attitude - he's just a bad footballer. Same with Keane.

Don't get me wrong, they need to go as soon as possible, all three of them, but there's going to be an order of priority. Unfortunately I think we'll be stuck with Keane and Schneiderlin another year perhaps.

Same as Martina and he’s been binned.

 

[Tubey]

Same as Martina and he’s been binned.

Yeah but he has two players ahead of him in every position he plays. Keane and Schneiderlin currently don't.

Again, priorities.

 

[evertonarntwe]

Without wanting to labour the point, just because we don't want them here (and I don't want any of them, let me be clear on that) doesn't mean that 'nobody' does. That's the point i'm making. Holgate said last year that Williams was his hero, like a big brother to him. If someone told your big brother he wasn't welcome in their house how would you feel about going there? You don't think it would cause a little bit of a rift?

doesn't it work two ways though mate?

ie your point on Williams with Holgate being like a brother

we might have shown a lack of professionalism towards him on this, did Williams show any against lyon when he elbowed a defender, did he show any in his last game when we elbowed a player ( whilst captain btw ) against burnley got sent off

did mirallas show any when he apparently refused to train

did martina show any when he signed a contract knowing full well he's not a football player

 

[fandjango]

It

View attachment 48433

Just seen this on the front page and wasn’t sure where to discuss it?

Cuco Martina and Nikola Vlasic seem odd inclusions to that lineup? Do you think this an attitude/behavior decision or ability decision

There was the supposed incident with Kev and Schneiderin last season, however silva seemed to like Mirrallas worryingly at the start of pre season

Cuco and Vlasic although not good enough have never been linked to any attitude issues and I can’t imagine their personalities being overly toxic to the dressing room...

Ashley Williams should not even be allowed to enter finch farm imo and is well ahead of Barmby for me in terms of evertonian i most hate

I would personally have included Bolassie and Schneiderlin in that group, knowing Marco saw what we saw last season

Could it be these are the olayers in most advanced talks to leave the club? If so then i think Vlasic again is an odd choice only being given 1 season and a bit part role

Whatever the reason i do like that Marco Silva is laying down the law already i am really starting to like him, very direct at the board when it looked like we were going to struggle for transfers, open and honest in his interviews and he is somebody it sounds from many accounts players enjoy.... unlike the last two egotistical bell’s we had ( not including rhino obviously)

Not about attitude its about squad size
Silva wants to work more intensly with a smaller squad
Oust those with no future
Brutal but sensible

 

[Deleted member 28206]

I'll now call silva Daddy Silva.

 

[Lanolin]

Think you may be overplaying this a bit mate. It's a football decision by a manager and possibly his dof. They are ultimately responsible for performance. Players are less like human beings when they're laying it on thick over their contracts or agitating to move to another club. I think maybe the way Joyce has reported this makes it seem a lot more harsh - I'm sure they haven't been rounded up and led off in shackles to be booted into a fallow field at FF.

Your last sentence though I would agree with entirely - there's a lot for Silva to prove yet before we can start to regard him as the 'right choice'.

Of course it's a football decision, and as I've said, it may well turn out to be an inspired one.

I disagree about the players though. If anything, contract negotiations are a perfect example of how players are human; they want the best possible deal for themselves just like we would. Honestly, they are just people. I'm not suggesting that these things will ruin their lives or anything, just that it can lead to them seeing the manager a certain way, and that when you hit a rocky patch, it may affect the way they react.

I love how when stuff goes wrong people never shut up about 'player power' and 'losing the dressing room' but when you give an example of what causes that type of thing, people try to make out like it doesn't exist.

 

[Philw]

I hope it works that way but it's a dangerous game. Those players will have friends in the squad and possibly on the staff too, as well as in the wider footballing world. It might make for great team spirit, or it might lead to players getting the hump because they feel their mate was treated badly, players not coming because their mate got treated badly, or us being left with a number of players who are still turning up for training every day for the next 12 months with a poisonous attitude because they've been ostracised.

I'm not saying it's a bad move, and obviously I have no idea of the circumstances, but I hope he knows what he's doing because these decisions have consequences.

Without wanting to labour the point, just because we don't want them here (and I don't want any of them, let me be clear on that) doesn't mean that 'nobody' does. That's the point i'm making. Holgate said last year that Williams was his hero, like a big brother to him. If someone told your big brother he wasn't welcome in their house how would you feel about going there? You don't think it would cause a little bit of a rift?

I don't give a sod for the players concerned, but it can only weaken any possibility of selling them, and it increases the possibility of them, if they are the lazy so and sos / bad eggs portrayed, to dig their heels in and refuse to be co-operative if a chance of a move does come up.

I'm all for removing people who are a negative influence but we can't just tell them to stand in the corner and forget about them - we paid transfer fees, pay their wages, and I thought it would be incumbent on us to move them out of the club by selling/loaning them as appropriate. This doesn't bring us closer to that, although I can fully understand the sheer frustration out of which this decision would have been taken.

The other thing is that it could act as another contraint to bringing players IN - it's already difficult enough and with all other things being equal, if a player turns us down because of concerns about togetherness and morale, then we lose out again.

This part of pre season is fine tuning and geting the team ready for wolves. If these 4 are nowhere near the plans for the 1st game and beyond they will simply be in the way in training. Get the players working together who have a chance of playing and get rid of those that don't. Is it harsh? Maybe, but that's life, suck it up and get on with it.....

Think you may be overplaying this a bit mate. It's a football decision by a manager and possibly his dof. They are ultimately responsible for performance. Players are less like human beings when they're laying it on thick over their contracts or agitating to move to another club. I think maybe the way Joyce has reported this makes it seem a lot more harsh - I'm sure they haven't been rounded up and led off in shackles to be booted into a fallow field at FF.

Your last sentence though I would agree with entirely - there's a lot for Silva to prove yet before we can start to regard him as the 'right choice'.

What these two ^^ said: I'm sure Silva has told them to jeff off, or taken away their locker, but that he needs to focus on the players that he's planning on using to start the season. And to be honest, we can't keep players hanging around just because they are someone's mate or 'hero'. I'm sure they've not been turfed out of FF, but are doing their own sessions, or training with the u23s etc.

Shame Vlasic's one of them though, hoped he was going to be good, but perhaps he's not as good a prospect as we thought, and we are overstocked in his position.

 

[Lanolin]

doesn't it work two ways though mate?

ie your point on Williams with Holgate being like a brother

we might have shown a lack of professionalism towards him on this, did Williams show any against lyon when he elbowed a defender, did he show any in his last game when we elbowed a player ( whilst captain btw ) against burnley got sent off

did mirallas show any when he apparently refused to train

did martina show any when he signed a contract knowing full well he's not a football player

Not being funny mate but I feel like you're not actually reading what i'm saying.

Yes it works both ways - that's the whole point! The entirety of the point being made here is that some people are only seeing it from one angle when there is actually another viewpoint. I can't stress enough that i'm not saying it won't work, only that it is absolutely not a risk free strategy. This is absolutely the type of thing that you could see us talking about in 2 years saying 'well I suppose we should have realised this would happen when he banished those 4 from training before the season had even started...'. Hopefully it will prove to be a masterstroke, all i'm trying to do is get people to see that there's a chance it might not be.

 

[BigMick]

Vlasic has been incredibly poor in preseason, especially when he should be trying to impress a new manager. So no complaints from me but there's a few others I'd have exiled as well..........Get yer kit, Morgan!

 

[Zezti]

I hope 'isolated' actually means loaded into a cannon aimed at the sea

 

[evertonarntwe]

Not being funny mate but I feel like you're not actually reading what i'm saying.

Yes it works both ways - that's the whole point! The entirety of the point being made here is that some people are only seeing it from one angle when there is actually another viewpoint. I can't stress enough that i'm not saying it won't work, only that it is absolutely not a risk free strategy. This is absolutely the type of thing that you could see us talking about in 2 years saying 'well I suppose we should have realised this would happen when he banished those 4 from training before the season had even started...'. Hopefully it will prove to be a masterstroke, all i'm trying to do is get people to see that there's a chance it might not be.

I am reading what you're saying like, and of course it has risks but I doubt it'll be a problem as football is all business these days and there isn't room for sentiment,( which is what I think the first team squad will understand ) me personally I don't agree with kicking people away from the squad, I think it's very embarrassing for the player

however I dislike them all bar vlasic so I'm not that bothered on this occasion I suppose

 

[TheVelourFog]

told they aren't in the first team plans and training with the u23s most likely

 

[DanB90]

Marco walking into Finch Farm this morning.

 

[brieverton]

I have Paul McGrath's autobiography at home, which btw, is a fascinating read. I'm reminded of it today with this news. It's been almost a decade since I read it but I'm going to re-visit the section where Ferguson - King Ruthless himself - told him his Utd career was over. I have only hazy recall of it. Many thought it was the signal that Utd were finally being managed, once and for all, with deadly seriousness. Obviously McGrath had serious personal issues which are not on a par with a mere bad attitude - bottom line is this sort of thing either works out for the good or it doesn't. It's a risk and they accept the risk in taking the decision.

 

[magicjuan]

Again though, I completely agree with the principle but you've used the key word there without seemingly realising it - if. IF this improves team spirit and work ethic then it's a great move, and he can be applauded. All i'm saying is that assuming it WILL improve team spirit and work ethic shows a complete lack of understanding of the human psyche. This can go either way, it's a bold call and I respect him for that, I'd just rather wait and see whether it works before I start slapping everyone on the back saying 'what a manager'.

Don't see any back slapping but a mix of relief and hope that an issue that's blighted us for many years is actually beiing taken serious having been identified and recognised. It really couldn't be allowed to continue if we wanted things to change on the pitch.
I think possibly the snides would run to Bill who would kind of overrule the manager to back up his 'family'. Perhaps Brands/Silva are Moshiri's men and there is no Bill.get out anymore?