Is Martinez our best signing this year?

[BoysInBlue]

We could do without fans like you, to be blunt. Fans who are so easily impressed with a guy who's just been relegated. Go back and read the clubs Motto. Think about it for a bit. Learn it, then consider, if finishing outside the top 8 is acceptable. Think again, then consider, is dropping down at least 3 places in the league acceptable? Is finishing below West Brom, or Swansea acceptable?

Please don't patronise me in future, when you are in a fan club, and carrying out like we've won a trophy for appointing a manager. We need more fans who aren't going to make excuse after excuse for failure. Fans who are going to demand the best. We need a few more like Big Neville Southall, who understood this club and it's fans to the core, it's ethos, it's will to win and be the best.

Please don't patronise me, or any other supporter who has the temerity to suggest we should continue to try and adhere to these high standards as not required. Frankly, we are what seperates this club from what it is today, and what people like you would have us become, another Wigan, Middlesborough, Blackburn also ran.

For the record, Southall has said Martinez is a good appointment.

You're going on about 'adhering to high standards'.... you seem oblivious to the stark financial picture that was painted during the club's EGM (E standing for 'Emergency', quite a few people seem to forget) last month.

We 'adhere' to the standards that our finances allow us to, our 'finances' being a polite way of saying 'THE BOARD'.

'Being relegated' is used as this brickbat to bash Martinez with. He also won the FA Cup, something that is an excellent achievement. Whether Martinez is the next Catterick or the next Walker remains to be seen. The honest truth is, he might be somewhere in between. Hopefully nearer Catterick than Walker, but in between none the less and only time will tell us the answer.

One last thing - 'being relegated elsewhere' should not (and does not) automatically make someone a crap manager. History has shown that with some famous well-lauded manager (Wenger, Benitez, Klopp - all three went on to reach European Cup finals). Even Everton have had managers who have been relegated previously - Joe Royle the most obvious one, relegated with Oldham after 3 years of low top flight tables finishes, goes to us, stablises us, wins us the FA Cup and finishes 6th the following season, highest league position for 8 years. Billy Bingham is another one - relegated earlier in his career at Plymouth, took charge of us, and was on course to win the title in 1975, only for us to win 1 game of our last 8 games. If we'd won just 2 more games, we'd have won the league and not finished 4th. Not bad for a relegated manager.

 

[davek]

Our points tally improved last year. We were fairly stable in the top 7/8 teams year in year out. I do find it interesting though, that you castigated Moyes for his failure, yet you describe the same thing as impossible for Martinez.
Can we please end this "good football" nonsense. 700 passes between your back four and goalkeeper is not good football. Joe Allen is not the best midfielder in the world as he has the most passes. Kopites are truly ********s, who talk innate nonsense, about how possession football is automatically a more scientifically advanced game. Please don't turn us into those whoppers across the park, with the slavish devotion to the "good football" nonsense of Rodgers.

We are here to win games, not plaudits. Lets keep trying to do that, win more games than last year, increase our points total from say 63, to 66 by winning 1 more game, and we can finish in the top 4!

I never once expected Moyes to breakthrough the elite teams to a CL spot. Sorry.

And Moyes wasn't progressing us; it's a weird form of progression that goes from a couple of 5th place spots to averaging 7th in his final few seasons. He did as well as could be expected with the resources he had. But it didn't really matter whether he finished 10th or 6th really. It was still nowhere. Same with Martinez - he wont be able to crack it; only the style of play and the possibility of having a go at the cups and in the Derby can be the major differences.

 

[catcherintherye]

For the record, Southall has said Martinez is a good appointment.

You're going on about 'adhering to high standards'.... you seem oblivious to the stark financial picture that was painted during the club's EGM (E standing for 'Emergency', quite a few people seem to forget) last month.

We 'adhere' to the standards that our finances allow us to, our 'finances' being a polite way of saying 'THE BOARD'.

'Being relegated' is used as this brickbat to bash Martinez with. He also won the FA Cup, something that is an excellent achievement. Whether Martinez is the next Catterick or the next Walker remains to be seen. The honest truth is, he might be somewhere in between. Hopefully nearer Catterick than Walker, but in between none the less and only time will tell us the answer.

One last thing - 'being relegated elsewhere' should not (and does not) automatically make someone a crap manager. History has shown that with some famous well-lauded manager (Wenger, Benitez, Klopp - all three went on to reach European Cup finals). Even Everton have had managers who have been relegated previously - Joe Royle the most obvious one, relegated with Oldham after 3 years of low top flight tables finishes, goes to us, stablises us, wins us the FA Cup and finishes 6th the following season, highest league position for 8 years. Billy Bingham is another one - relegated earlier in his career at Plymouth, took charge of us, and was on course to win the title in 1975, only for us to win 1 game of our last 8 games. If we'd won just 2 more games, we'd have won the league and not finished 4th. Not bad for a relegated manager.

Martinez should get support. We don't know how successful he will be.
Of course some managers who have been relegated have done well. A lot more do badly. Very few, will have got a job at a club in the top 6 of the league, a few weeks after having been relegated.
In the end, if Martinex can improve us, keep him. If not, find someone who can. it's not a hard concept

 

[Sideliner]

Martinez is clever (quallifications as physio and business science ) on top of that he is passionate about football -
passion and intelligence is a potent combination - I hope it works for him because then it will work for Everton

 

[Goat]

We all hope it works for him.

Well at least we should.

 

[toffee matt]

Martinez is clever (quallifications as physio and business science ) on top of that he is passionate about football -
passion and intelligence is a potent combination - I hope it works for him because then it will work for Everton

Am I right in thinking he has a home cinema just to watch re runs of past game?

It must have been torture watching some wigan games

 

[catcherintherye]

I never once expected Moyes to breakthrough the elite teams to a CL spot. Sorry.

And Moyes wasn't progressing us; it's a weird form of progression that goes from a couple of 5th place spots to averaging 7th in his final few seasons. He did as well as could be expected with the resources he had. But it didn't really matter whether he finished 10th or 6th really. It was still nowhere. Same with Martinez - he wont be able to crack it; only the style of play and the possibility of having a go at the cups and in the Derby can be the major differences.

I suppose progress, I mean by in the ten years previous we had finished in the top 11 once. Whereas under Moyes it was top 11 (and top 10) like every season but one.
Your attitude between 10th to 6th is silly to me. If you are a salesman, you don't say "I don't care if I come 6th of 10th, it's nowhere". If you're not the best, you want to do as well as possible. I'd rather finish above Stoke, West Brom, Swansea than below them.
When you say you are happy to drop from 6th to 10th, that is accepting failure. You should br striving to improve, and not go backwards.

 

[BoysInBlue]

Martinez should get support. We don't know how successful he will be.
Of course some managers who have been relegated have done well. A lot more do badly. Very few, will have got a job at a club in the top 6 of the league, a few weeks after having been relegated.
In the end, if Martinex can improve us, keep him. If not, find someone who can. it's not a hard concept

Obviously, if he doesn't cut the mustard and we're in dire straights, yeah, we may and probably will get rid.

But things may not happen overnight. People need to be patient. Moyes finished 7th, then finished 17th. If we'd binned Moyes off in May 2004, no way in hell would we have finished 4th following season. Or after he finished 11th, after finishing 4th. And we probably wouldn't have stablised in the top 7 thereafter either.

It's too easy to bin managers off - well, it is if you're rich like Chelsea, where standards are high because the investment is high. Even Liverpool bin managers off with ease - 4 bosses in the last 4 years. Our finances are such where we can't afford to kneejerk. Yeah, relegation would be a financial catastrophe for us, but realistically, all of the same players who finished 6th are still at the club. Martinez would have to be spectacularly incompetent to have us battling relegation this season.

 

[D410]

Try not to take it so seriously, or so personally...its only football ! I was never Moyes biggest fan, since the day he signed, because I didn't think he was the man to take us to the top level, but he steadied the ship and stayed ten years or so, which is an acheivement of sorts. He certainly will not be able to manage Man Utd by the same method he managed Everton, and I suspect that his negative mindset will be his undoing. Thats just my opinion.
Concerning Martinez, he is bring fresh ideas, and these were needed, and I'm sure that he's well aware of the pitfalls...he has to get players to accept what he is trying to do, and has to ensure that Everton have players who are able to technically play within his system. This is going to make for an interesting season, and it is quite possible that he will finish with fewer points than the dullard Moyes might have acheived, but this does not mean that he is an abject failure. Eventually he will have a team that is HIS team(if you remember, it was a milestone when Moyes was finally able to play an eleven that were all his signings), and only then can he be judged. We gave Moyes 10 seasons....why are people suggesting that Martinez will be judged after only one?

And incidentally, with regard to Neville Southall, who for at least three years was the best goalkeeper in the world. Almost everything he has said about Everton since his retirement has been said with a great big foot in his mouth, his all time classic being 'It would do Everton good to be relegated'. The very best goalkeeper, and a great Evertonian, but not one for saying the right thing.

"David Moyes, the greatest manager in the world"...Bill Kenwright

 

[Sideliner]

there were some great Wigan games apart from the FA Cup - look at their stats - in many departments they outplayed Everton -
beat Tottenham away as well - and really played attractive football - nearly scored as many goals as Everton- defencewas the problem-
some real time Everton games looked like reruns last season - hoof ball and back passes - and boring draws ........
yes he has a home cinema and is a great student of the game -
but the proof of the pudding will be in the playing so let us wait and see

 

[D410]

Let,s hope Martinez get,s his cup run because crashing out of the cups early doors would put an awful dent in those fans who are not arsed about the league.

 

[Jags..class]

Let,s hope Martinez get,s his cup run because crashing out of the cups early doors would put an awful dent in those fans who are not arsed about the league.

It doesn't have to be this season mate, he need to put his stamp on the team first.

 

[BoysInBlue]

Let,s hope Martinez get,s his cup run because crashing out of the cups early doors would put an awful dent in those fans who are not arsed about the league.

I'm genuinely baffled by people who seem to think he's going to be crap in the league.

The same players are still at the club. People are making out Martinez is some sort of idiot.

I realise people have different opinions, but this really does seem very unfair on him.

 

[D410]

I'm genuinely baffled by people who seem to think he's going to be crap in the league.

The same players are still at the club. People are making out Martinez is some sort of idiot.

I realise people have different opinions, but this really does seem very unfair on him.

The fans who are right behind him will pretty much sacrifice the league, cups and anything else....real life does,nt work that way. It,s a results business and it catches up with everyone.

 

[catcherintherye]

I'm genuinely baffled by people who seem to think he's going to be crap in the league.

The same players are still at the club. People are making out Martinez is some sort of idiot.

I realise people have different opinions, but this really does seem very unfair on him.

I agree with this 100%! We can easily improve on our league position. Christ knows why some people have written off finishing in the top 6, and are already getting the excuses in. How little faith do they have in Martinez?