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Is Martinez our best signing this year?

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I don't think for one moment people are suggesting that mid-table mediocrity is acceptable.

What people are implying is that we are changing the football structure within goodison and for this to be successful we may have to take one step back before we take 2 steps forward.

Totally agree. I think it is inevitable that we will get nowhere near our usual 60 points next season. People are underestimating the changes behind the scene. All the things like our defensive shapes that Moyes, Round, Lumsden etc will have drilled into the players for years will now have changed.

Alex Ferguson is a prime example of this because when he first took over Man U he took them backwards to the point of almost being sacked and then look what happened.

He didn't really take them backwards, just didn't win trophies immediately.

It seems and some fans think and have said for a while that Moyes may have taken us as far as 'HE' could. Maybe that was the best Moyes could do.

Moyes has taken Everton, in their current financial state, as far as they can go in the league. No one else has got close to regularly getting 60+ points without £100m+ annual budgets.

We do not yet know how far Martinez is going to take us but one thing is sure his coaching mindset is more of a European style and you will find that is the way to go. Drop all this British type coaching as it obviously doesn't work anymore and we must learn to move with the times. Thats the way i think Martinez is trying to take us.

Martinez has an almost entirely British backroom staff. His methods simply haven't worked in the Premier League. Never got more than 43 points and never conceded fewer than 61 goals in a season. Other teams with smaller budgets have done better. That is my real worry.
 
How is he pushing for no 1 spot mate? This is what is confusing me with evertonians at the minute we just seem to delude ourselves to make the situation look better in 2 games he has let in 3 goals he did nothing much at wigan and we know nothing about him from aletico and compared to our rivals keepers reina/mignolet, lloris etc. He isn't nowhere near that level blue tinted glasses off mate

You can't say any of our signings are good/bad until we've seen them play competitively for a prolonged period. Saying Robles is bad business because he's let it 3 goals in 2 friendlies (he can hardly be blamed for the goal against Accrington anyway) is very premature. We haven't even seen Kone in an Everton shirt yet.
 
How is he pushing for no 1 spot mate? This is what is confusing me with evertonians at the minute we just seem to delude ourselves to make the situation look better in 2 games he has let in 3 goals he did nothing much at wigan and we know nothing about him from aletico and compared to our rivals keepers reina/mignolet, lloris etc. He isn't nowhere near that level blue tinted glasses off mate

None of those 3 goals were his fault though mate. He looks a good buy so far and at a relatively cheap price.
 
Martinez has an almost entirely British backroom staff. His methods simply haven't worked in the Premier League. Never got more than 43 points and never conceded fewer than 61 goals in a season. Other teams with smaller budgets have done better. That is my real worry.
You're comparing apples and pears. There is no metric to use in a comparison between Moyes and Martinez other than to wait and study their performances at EVERTON over a period of a few seasons in charge. You may as well use the comparison between Moyes and Martinez in the Championship.
 
You're comparing apples and pears. There is no metric to use in a comparison between Moyes and Martinez other than to wait and study their performances at EVERTON over a period of a few seasons in charge. You may as well use the comparison between Moyes and Martinez in the Championship.

This.

Moyes has certainly left him some quality players to work with, also hes looked to plug a few gaps within the squad.

I think we should wait and see, if the mask slips and the wheels fall off, we can call it if it happens.
 
Totally agree. I think it is inevitable that we will get nowhere near our usual 60 points next season. People are underestimating the changes behind the scene. All the things like our defensive shapes that Moyes, Round, Lumsden etc will have drilled into the players for years will now have changed.

fair comment



He didn't really take them backwards, just didn't win trophies immediately.

fair, but doesn't detract from the point they wanted him gone



Moyes has taken Everton, in their current financial state, as far as they can go in the league. No one else has got close to regularly getting 60+ points without £100m+ annual budgets.

fair, but is a part picture which some love others have a different perspective



Martinez has an almost entirely British backroom staff. His methods simply haven't worked in the Premier League. Never got more than 43 points and never conceded fewer than 61 goals in a season. Other teams with smaller budgets have done better. That is my real worry.

Very unreasonable, Wigan's complete circumstances of annual player sale, slashing wages, no support are not considered whereas immediately above the Moyes "achievement" is cosseted by the caveat of money spent - very selective.
As is the avoidance of tw@tting us en route to winning the cup. Poor post this bit.

Hope you don't mind a bit of balance.
 
No what you're saying is we (efc) are at this position ergo next year we must be the same or better if not RM must be shown the door.

The season Moyes reached 4th the following season should have been 3rd, then 2nd, then champions using your theorem.

You haven't thought this through.

To be fair mate, I said finishing outside of the top 8 sides is not acceptable. I stand by that.
 
How is he pushing for no 1 spot mate? This is what is confusing me with evertonians at the minute we just seem to delude ourselves to make the situation look better in 2 games he has let in 3 goals he did nothing much at wigan and we know nothing about him from aletico and compared to our rivals keepers reina/mignolet, lloris etc. He isn't nowhere near that level blue tinted glasses off mate

I'm basing my opinion on him looking good in his 2 pre-season games. Being one of Spain's main young keepers, displacing Al-Habsi at Wigan and having an FA Cup medal to his name. Quite simply, he's better than Mucha, quite cheap and thus more competition for Howard. Ergo a decent buy.
 
I can't really understand why people a judging and arguing about our new manager n signings before the season has started. People are never happy, we should all be anticipating and excited about the new season yet still the same arguments go on."Moyes was ****" etc...get over it he's gone."we have no money." None of us have one friggin Iota of a clue how much he has to spend, let's just enjoy the pre-season build up and get behind the lads. COYB!!!
 
It may be hard to judge him if we lose Felli or Baines - Baines very hard to replace Felli also a goal scorer last season - if they one is sold in good time maybe he will get the money to replace , but imo Baines is our main asset and maybe irreplaceable at this current time - if that happens as if DM was still here it may be a struggle for us as a team this season!

Roberto Martinez has already sold Baines once, from Wigan to Everton.
 
In all honesty for a few seasons the thought had crossed my mind even Moyes most ardent admirers accept his top end signings have been questionable. If I was of the apparent mindset of our board I wouldn't give him big money particularly as everyone involved, a goodly portion of our fanbase included, seem content with floating around 8th to 6th - why risk your dough?

You obviously missed the many people that defended his buys in the many Moyes is s**t at transfer threads you lot created. Fellaini is boss, Billy got most of our money back, Yak got injured but was quality before that, Beattie made us a profit and Mirallas is class.
All in all we lost very little financially, and in fact were Fellaini/Mirallas to go, we'll of had quality players and made a massive profit, so your theory about not giving him money because of his record with big money signings is nonesence.


Of course this theory is bollocks Evertonians aren't really happy en masse about winning fck all it's just most don't like complaining about Everton personnel - board or manager. But Moyes shipping out has unleashed that genie from the bottle people are unencumbered and frankly are letting rip about him, his methods and record.

You're right here, none of us are happy with not winning anything, that is indeed blx. However its not that people don't like complaining, its just that the league results have been so far above anyone else's in similar circumstances, that only the most blinkered of fan can't appreciate what he's done. Plenty of factual evidence to back that up.

But the money ??? Presumably Davek's reasoning of heavy wage earners leaving creating funds is the immediate avenue for the cash - we haven't sold anyone of note have we? and has the TV money turned up yet?

I am guessing its down to the TV revenue, seems likely, 11 years of fk all.. then the TV rights come up trumps and we spend more than Moyes entire 11 year net spend. More likely to be something to do with getting a vast sum of money come into the club than one of the board dipping into their pocket. But its a guess, as in any other at this time.

The league positioning has become a source of "meh" to people like me because of the cost - we've flogged or hocked everyone and everything of any value to arrive at what's become known as the "7th place trophy" - no silverware or even glorious defeat to regale the youngsters in years to come.

Of all that money raised from the sale of assets, Moyes received less than 5mil net spend, over the course of 11 years in transfer. That's 5 mil given to him that wasn't made up of selling players.
Now that 5 mil was enough for Moyes to take us from regular whipping boys near the foot of the table
to feared opponents regularly near the top. Blaming Moyes for not doing well enough on less money than Martinez has already spent is poor, suggesting that we sold everything and Moyes received the money for this is simply untrue.

The essence of adventure, to at least give your best shot everytime had gone under Moyes, replaced by "be thankful for being respectable" - and many were .... not all though. So if Roberto's first season shows promise of adventure, excitement, bravado but we slip some places in the league so what?

I'm a football fan not a statistician measuring football success by referring to opta or being obsessed by financial accounts.

Don't buy that for Moyes, I think last season showed perfectly well that you are wrong and he still had adventurous ability. He would rather help the midfield to build attacks and stop counters with his subs than just go with another striker instead its true.

And who said they were against Martinez being adventurous? Separate Moyes and Martinez, its possible to like both, I do but if we slip down the league, whether you accept it or not, it means a mil per place for the transfer kitty. Not necessarily the worst thing.. Coleman over Downing as a signing for example, but the more money you have, the more options you have to buy the player you need to progress and finish higher next time or get closer to that elusive cup.

I appreciate you don't want to hear that because you are a football fan, and don't care about how much money we have for transfers etc, but this is a simple fact.

Lower league position - less money - worse transfer window - worse squad.


This "money is all" homily has been exposed by Wigan, Swansea and Dortmund and Martinez is a man of this pedigree founding what is todays Swansea.

Wigan who went down and Swansea who kept finishing below us? Not great examples. I'd rather have a side winning games in the league and bringing in the money to keep progressing, rather than being Wigan who got relegated after their one great moment.

Perhaps members of the board can see this recognising it's a different ball game with Martinez - for I don't see him toeing any party line if it doesn't suit - there'll be no shield this time round.

Doubtfull, if they thought that, they wouldn't of signed him and if he turns on his boss publicly then he is a t*t that will be sacked very quickly, as would anyone else.

I really rated Moyes because whilst many bang on about remembering the 80's, I can still remember the 90's as well (and more than just one game), and he took us from that nightmare and made us a feared team worthy of pride again. We were the easy three points that teams above us fumed about when they lost to us... Now its us fuming at a draw against the teams we used to be. That's why I like Moyes, because I too am a football fan more than a money man, and because I much prefer it this way around with the expectation of 3 points rather than getting our arses whooped... again. I am also realistic enough to realise that actually getting 4th was an achievement as immense and difficult as Wigan winning the cup, and to stay in those higher positions, far more impressive than he is being given credit for.

That being said, I also like Martinez so far and I cannot wait to see the lineup and the sort of football his team will play, the new players two of which I think are very exciting prospects for the coming season, and to hear the silky mofo big us up at every opportunity more attacking lineups, strikers as first choice subs (none of this may happen of course, but until it doesn't we can dream).

Its all good, but you can't deny that given the money Martinez has already had (more than Moyes total spend), the squad Moyes left, and the sheer amount of problems you lot claim Moyes had, if you are right about Moyes, it should be an absolute doddle for Martinez to do better than him even on his first year?

Fortunately I don't agree with most of the anti Moyes comments and prefer facts and what I see myself, so I am expecting Martinez to be exciting, and to drop a little, because like it or not, mock it or not, 4th,5th,6th,7th or 8th under our business model is a superb result that will be tough to match... Its why no one has yet.

Other than that I agree utterly with your post though mate :lol:
 
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