Current Affairs Irish Border and Brexit

[Emlynsqueakyvoice]

I wouldn't be too quick to slam the SDLP for trying to engage in democracy while the Shinners took another, less productive, approach.
Sinn Fein run the risk of biting off the nose to spite the face. There's a whole lot of people south of the border who won't look favourably on their outdated crusade if it means there'll be a hard border.

I didn't slam the SDLP mate, although I get where you're coming from there. Let's face it, nobody in UK government cares about Ireland. They never have until the yanks made them talk to the different factions in the 80s/90s. Even now, your Boris Johnsons and Michael Goves airily dismiss the border problem as something that can be resolved when the trade arrangements are established. Another thought, when these Leave fellas said that we were taking back control of the borders, but that they don't want a hard border in Ireland, how's that stopping immigrants entering UK jurisdiction?

 

[Armaghtoffee]

I think, however, had May not called the GE and made the DUP kingmakers, NI remaining in the customs union wouldn't have been such a huge stumbling block as it would have had big support in NI.

I’m not so sure it would have been once the penny dropped for the DUP what this would ultimately mean re having a different trade system to London.

The resurgence in Republican sentiment and legitimate calls for a border poll is definite proof that the DUP hadn’t thought through all the implications of a leave vote.

 

[Ruairi77]

Right... but then they'd have been powerless to stop the English Rees-Mogg nutters from just imposing a hard border, no?

Maybe, but had the border not been such a headache and the talks been smoother and more direct, I don't think the brextremeists would have had such a strong voice.
NI remaining in the UK but in the EU common market would have massive approval in NI and Britain. It would be a huge economic boost for NI as the city would branch out there rather than other EU destinations. Ironically, economic prosperity in the north is probably the only thing that would stave off reunification with the south. It's a shame the DUP are too blind to see.

 

[abelard]

Ironically, economic prosperity in the north is probably the only thing that would stave off reunification with the south. It's a shame the DUP are too blind to see.

I suspect they think destitution in the North is needed to stave off reunification, because it would prompt anyone comfortable with the Republic to just move there, leaving them with a commanding majority over whoever remains.

 

[Ruairi77]

I suspect they think destitution in the North is needed to stave off reunification, because it would prompt anyone comfortable with the Republic to just move there, leaving them with a commanding majority over whoever remains.

"And it's all just little bits of history repeating..."

 

[Khalekan]

TBH did either side in The Brexit campain mention the border problem ?

The Irish, both north and south, warned about it.

But as English people rarely give a second thought to the problems we created in Ireland by drawing up the border in the first place, it was a concern to neither side in the Referendum debate.

It is a supreme irony that John Bull’s other island is proving to be the key issue now

 

[Emlynsqueakyvoice]

The Irish, both north and south, warned about it.

But as English people rarely give a second thought to the problems we created in Ireland by drawing up the border in the first place, it was a concern to neither side in the Referendum debate.

It is a supreme irony that John Bull’s other island is proving to be the key issue now

100% this.

 

[Joey66]

The Irish, both north and south, warned about it.

But as English people rarely give a second thought to the problems we created in Ireland by drawing up the border in the first place, it was a concern to neither side in the Referendum debate.

It is a supreme irony that John Bull’s other island is proving to be the key issue now

It's amazing to know the Isle of Man is not in the EU - outside the EEA- yet also has no tarrifs
So the EU banging the drum about the border while over the sea nearer than Ireland only 248 miles allow this trade free....

 

[Khalekan]

It's amazing to know the Isle of Man is not in the EU - outside the EEA- yet also has no tarrifs
So the EU banging the drum about the border while over the sea nearer than Ireland only 248 miles allow this trade free....

Very true, Joe.

Then again the Isle of Man is a consensus society without the political and cultural faultlines that divide the people in NI

Ergo things are much easier managed over there

 

[Foot Long Hot Dog]

It's amazing to know the Isle of Man is not in the EU - outside the EEA- yet also has no tarrifs
So the EU banging the drum about the border while over the sea nearer than Ireland only 248 miles allow this trade free....

Protocol 3.....

Pop....

 

[Caolam]

I live and work in a border county in Northern Ireland, much of my working life is spend in South Down and South Armagh. I can be in the Republic and out again without even noticing it. A hard border would mean the closure of many border roads as they would be impossible to police, the number of border crossings would have to be reduced. Our peace process has brought the communities and business much closer together in these areas. A hard border would create immense problems along the border. In border towns I can use either sterling or euros.
However the biggest problem a hard border would create is that it would draw a line between what is British and what is Irish. For the nationalist community it would be a signal that the political path they have taken has proven fruitless. The line would be back and it would need border security. Much as I believed violence could never return I now believe a hard border would be the justification the men of violence would need and they would take up arms again. I can now see a time when British solders, police and Northern Ireland people will die for this referendum decision.

 

[Joey66]

Very true, Joe.

Then again the Isle of Man is a consensus society without the political and cultural faultlines that divide the people in NI

Ergo things are much easier managed over there

Access by air or boat to anywhere in the U.K. .......
The Good Friday agreement has settled Ireland down to stability yet the EU can trade with the Isle of Man freely yet fetch politics into it?
Only the EU raised this as a massive problem yet the Isle of Man has exports, and inports and people travelling.... Inside the EU they are deliberately causing a problem that could have a solution like the isles of Man have which has been in motion for many years.....
The EU should not try and break peace ...
Or use it as a polictical means to get their type of Brexit.....
A Canada plus plus one was attainable till they threw this spanner in the works both North and south do not want a hard border ala the UK - so it is down to their obstinance .....

 

[Khalekan]

Access by air or boat to anywhere in the U.K. .......
The Good Friday agreement has settled Ireland down to stability yet the EU can trade with the Isle of Man freely yet fetch politics into it?
Only the EU raised this as a massive problem yet the Isle of Man has exports, and inports and people travelling.... Inside the EU they are deliberately causing a problem that could have a solution like the isles of Man have which has been in motion for many years.....
The EU should not try and break peace ...
Or use it as a polictical means to get their type of Brexit.....
A Canada plus plus one was attainable till they threw this spanner in the works both North and south do not want a hard border ala the UK - so it is down to their obstinance .....

Whoosh.....it is going straight over your head, Joe.

The Irish border is as much in the hearts and minds of the people who find it going right through huge swathes of that country which want sod all to do with the UK and cannot wait to leave it, never mind the the EU.

In our lifetimes we have recently lived through a thirty year conflict just to illustrate that point

Just look at the electoral map of NI.......every constituency along that border returned a Sinn Fein MP.

They say to Hell with your English border and rightly so.

Comparing Ireland with the Isle of Man, Canada or even Timbuktu is just plain ignorant nonsense.

It really is very irresponsible and selfish for English Brexiteers to play so hard and loose with the aspirations and fears of the Irish people.

If you want England out the EU that is fine.....leave on your own terms.

But you have no right, no right whatever, to dictate to people in NI, who voted to Remain by a greater percentage than the English voted to Leave because they were aware all along of the perils and contortions their province would face in the event of the Brexit nightmare scenario, the type of hotchpotch non soloution bandied about by people who never gave the matter one second’s thought in the run up to the Referendum.

 

[Joey66]

Whoosh.....it is going straight over your head, Joe.

The Irish border is as much in the hearts and minds of the people who find it going right through huge swathes of that country which want sod all to do with the UK and cannot wait to leave it, never mind the the EU.

In our lifetimes we have recently lived through a thirty year conflict just to illustrate that point

Just look at the electoral map of NI.......every constituency along that border returned a Sinn Fein MP.

They say to Hell with your English border and rightly so.

Comparing Ireland with the Isle of Man, Canada or even Timbuktu is just plain ignorant nonsense.

It really is very irresponsible and selfish for English Brexiteers to play so hard and loose with the aspirations and fears of the Irish people.

If you want England out the EU that is fine.....leave on your own terms.

But you have no right, no right whatever, to dictate to people in NI, who voted to Remain by a greater percentage than the English voted to Leave because they were aware all along of the perils and contortions their province would face in the event of the Brexit nightmare scenario, the type of hotchpotch non soloution bandied about by people who never gave the matter one second’s thought in the run up to the Referendum.

Problem is historically with the saddened troubles going way back NI is part of the UK - hence the troubles and NI being part of the UK its in the out vote like Scotland it voted to remain - I am not dictating anything its the fact of the history -the EU have hardly took a sympathetic agenda towards the problem that's all I am pointing out.....
The white paper has supposed to let trade be frictionless?
at the end of the day it's down to the EU imo....

 

[Moomin]

Whoosh.....it is going straight over your head, Joe.

The Irish border is as much in the hearts and minds of the people who find it going right through huge swathes of that country which want sod all to do with the UK and cannot wait to leave it, never mind the the EU.

In our lifetimes we have recently lived through a thirty year conflict just to illustrate that point

Just look at the electoral map of NI.......every constituency along that border returned a Sinn Fein MP.

They say to Hell with your English border and rightly so.

Comparing Ireland with the Isle of Man, Canada or even Timbuktu is just plain ignorant nonsense.

It really is very irresponsible and selfish for English Brexiteers to play so hard and loose with the aspirations and fears of the Irish people.

If you want England out the EU that is fine.....leave on your own terms.

But you have no right, no right whatever, to dictate to people in NI, who voted to Remain by a greater percentage than the English voted to Leave because they were aware all along of the perils and contortions their province would face in the event of the Brexit nightmare scenario, the type of hotchpotch non soloution bandied about by people who never gave the matter one second’s thought in the run up to the Referendum.

What did you vote?