Current Affairs Irish Border and Brexit
- Thread starter Charlie Sweet
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Carry on Johnson dismissing the issue on the island of Ireland. Interesting that Trimble, who has championed the majority vote for Brexit, doesn't want the same democratic rules for a border poll.
Brexit causes surge in support for united Ireland, poll finds
Border poll result would now be wide open
Indy Politics
Northern Ireland has become the focus of Brexit talks because it is set to become the only future land border between the EU and UK ( AFP/Getty )
Brexit has caused a huge surge in support for a united Irelandamong the population of Northern Ireland, according to new research.
A poll by YouGov commissioned by the BBC found that a referendum or “border poll” on whether to leave the UK would now be a close-run result, with undecided voters having the casting vote.
Over a quarter of people in the six counties say they have changed their mind since the Brexit vote and now support a united Ireland – bringing polling for a referendum to 45 per cent staying in the UK and 42 per cent leaving it, with 13 per cent undecided.
Northern Ireland’s abortion law violates human rights, says court
Brexit has made 28 per cent say they are more likely to support a united Ireland, 27 per cent say they were already likely to support a united Ireland before Brexit, and 40.6 per cent say they still support union with the UK. Just 0.85 per cent of the public say Brexit has made them less likely to support a united Ireland.
Support for the cause is more popular among the younger generation than the old, with 49.4 per cent of under-45s backing a break with the UK compared to 37.7 per cent who want to stay in it.
Though Catholics are significantly more likely to support joining the Republic than Protestants, a minority of the latter, 8.5 per cent, say they support leaving the UK. An overall majority (50.2 per cent) in Northern Ireland’s capital, Belfast, support a united Ireland.
Northern Ireland has become the focus of Brexit talks because it is set to become the only future land border between the EU and UK. But under the Good Friday Agreement which brought an end to the Troubles, there cannot be a hard border between Northern Ireland and the Republic.
EU gives Britain June deadline on Northern Ireland border issue
Though the Government and EU both say they are committed to avoiding a hard border, leaked tapes released on Thursday showed Boris Johnson, the foreign secretary, saying it was “just beyond belief” that the issue was being taken so seriously and that focusing on such a “small” item amounted to “allowing the tail to wag the dog”.
The YouGov poll also found that 81.3 per cent of the Northern Ireland population do not believe that politicians reflect concerns of the people in the six counties well, while just 17.1 per cent did.
Leo Varadkar, the Irish prime minister, said on Friday morning that a border poll would be “divisive” and “a bad idea”.
The taoiseach, who is visiting Northern Ireland on Friday, told the Good Morning Ulster programme: “We should be respecting the primacy of the Good Friday Agreement and, at the heart of the Good Friday Agreement, is power sharing within Northern Ireland, ever-increasing cooperation within the north and south and peace in Britain and Ireland.
“While the Good Friday Agreement provides for the possibility of a border poll, and would allow that to pass by a majority of one, I don’t think the time or the conditions are right.
“I think the focus should be on getting the institutions up and running again, rather than focusing on a border poll.”
His comments came after former first minister Peter Robinson argued that any future border poll could not be conducted on the basis of a simple majority".
Brexit causes surge in support for united Ireland, poll finds
Border poll result would now be wide open
- Jon Stone Europe Correspondent
- @joncstone
- 3 hours ago
- 10 comments
Indy Politics
Northern Ireland has become the focus of Brexit talks because it is set to become the only future land border between the EU and UK ( AFP/Getty )
Brexit has caused a huge surge in support for a united Irelandamong the population of Northern Ireland, according to new research.
A poll by YouGov commissioned by the BBC found that a referendum or “border poll” on whether to leave the UK would now be a close-run result, with undecided voters having the casting vote.
Over a quarter of people in the six counties say they have changed their mind since the Brexit vote and now support a united Ireland – bringing polling for a referendum to 45 per cent staying in the UK and 42 per cent leaving it, with 13 per cent undecided.
Northern Ireland’s abortion law violates human rights, says court
Brexit has made 28 per cent say they are more likely to support a united Ireland, 27 per cent say they were already likely to support a united Ireland before Brexit, and 40.6 per cent say they still support union with the UK. Just 0.85 per cent of the public say Brexit has made them less likely to support a united Ireland.
Support for the cause is more popular among the younger generation than the old, with 49.4 per cent of under-45s backing a break with the UK compared to 37.7 per cent who want to stay in it.
Though Catholics are significantly more likely to support joining the Republic than Protestants, a minority of the latter, 8.5 per cent, say they support leaving the UK. An overall majority (50.2 per cent) in Northern Ireland’s capital, Belfast, support a united Ireland.
Northern Ireland has become the focus of Brexit talks because it is set to become the only future land border between the EU and UK. But under the Good Friday Agreement which brought an end to the Troubles, there cannot be a hard border between Northern Ireland and the Republic.
EU gives Britain June deadline on Northern Ireland border issue
Though the Government and EU both say they are committed to avoiding a hard border, leaked tapes released on Thursday showed Boris Johnson, the foreign secretary, saying it was “just beyond belief” that the issue was being taken so seriously and that focusing on such a “small” item amounted to “allowing the tail to wag the dog”.
The YouGov poll also found that 81.3 per cent of the Northern Ireland population do not believe that politicians reflect concerns of the people in the six counties well, while just 17.1 per cent did.
Leo Varadkar, the Irish prime minister, said on Friday morning that a border poll would be “divisive” and “a bad idea”.
The taoiseach, who is visiting Northern Ireland on Friday, told the Good Morning Ulster programme: “We should be respecting the primacy of the Good Friday Agreement and, at the heart of the Good Friday Agreement, is power sharing within Northern Ireland, ever-increasing cooperation within the north and south and peace in Britain and Ireland.
“While the Good Friday Agreement provides for the possibility of a border poll, and would allow that to pass by a majority of one, I don’t think the time or the conditions are right.
“I think the focus should be on getting the institutions up and running again, rather than focusing on a border poll.”
His comments came after former first minister Peter Robinson argued that any future border poll could not be conducted on the basis of a simple majority".
[QUOTE
His comments came after former first minister Peter Robinson argued that any future border poll could not be conducted on the basis of a simple majority".
[/QUOTE]
Robinson at least is voicing that the North of Ireland is already in a transition phase whereby the Unionist voting bloc is in terminal decline.
These King Kanute type utterings are a desperate attempt to whitewash the history of majority rule and stave off the inevitable Irish unification.
Brexit has proved to be an amazing catylist to focus Nationalist minds and the DUP have played a major role in this through their own short sighted political view. Blinded by Union Jacks and kowtowing to London, they had no idea what their vote would ultimately deliver.
@hullefc
His comments came after former first minister Peter Robinson argued that any future border poll could not be conducted on the basis of a simple majority".
[/QUOTE]
Robinson at least is voicing that the North of Ireland is already in a transition phase whereby the Unionist voting bloc is in terminal decline.
These King Kanute type utterings are a desperate attempt to whitewash the history of majority rule and stave off the inevitable Irish unification.
Brexit has proved to be an amazing catylist to focus Nationalist minds and the DUP have played a major role in this through their own short sighted political view. Blinded by Union Jacks and kowtowing to London, they had no idea what their vote would ultimately deliver.
@hullefc
peteblue
Welcome back Wayne
Robinson at least is voicing that the North of Ireland is already in a transition phase whereby the Unionist voting bloc is in terminal decline.
These King Kanute type utterings are a desperate attempt to whitewash the history of majority rule and stave off the inevitable Irish unification.
Brexit has proved to be an amazing catylist to focus Nationalist minds and the DUP have played a major role in this through their own short sighted political view. Blinded by Union Jacks and kowtowing to London, they had no idea what their vote would ultimately deliver.
@hullefc[/QUOTE]
So are you uniting or what then.......
So are you uniting or what then.......[/QUOTE]
Inevitable Pete and now is the time that Unionist leaders should be preparing their electorate.
Brexit has focussed minds re the border and the 2021 census will be the writing on the wall.
Calm heads and rationale thinking is required.
peteblue
Welcome back Wayne
I see that Ireland's deputy premier Simon Coveney has again warned the UK there will be no withdrawal deal without an agreement on the Irish border.
“Mr Coveney said the prospect of a no-deal scenario was being contemplated within the EU.
He said the EU was standing firmly behind Ireland and its demand for legally binding assurances from the UK to ensure no return to a hard border on the island.”
Mr Coveney said: “We have been reassured over and over again that Ireland will not be left isolated here.
"Let's be very clear - there will be no withdrawal agreement, no transition agreement and no managed Brexit if the UK don't follow through on their commitments."
Well, now that the U.K. government can actually have a ‘no deal’, I wonder why Juncker is flying to Dublin today ? I expect he’s going to reassure them even more that they will have the full backing of the other 26 nations to scupper any deal or transition and destroy the German car market. Or maybe Juncker might just tell them to keep their mouths shut...either way it will be interesting, after they’ve given him the usual honorary Doctorate of course......
“Mr Coveney said the prospect of a no-deal scenario was being contemplated within the EU.
He said the EU was standing firmly behind Ireland and its demand for legally binding assurances from the UK to ensure no return to a hard border on the island.”
Mr Coveney said: “We have been reassured over and over again that Ireland will not be left isolated here.
"Let's be very clear - there will be no withdrawal agreement, no transition agreement and no managed Brexit if the UK don't follow through on their commitments."
Well, now that the U.K. government can actually have a ‘no deal’, I wonder why Juncker is flying to Dublin today ? I expect he’s going to reassure them even more that they will have the full backing of the other 26 nations to scupper any deal or transition and destroy the German car market. Or maybe Juncker might just tell them to keep their mouths shut...either way it will be interesting, after they’ve given him the usual honorary Doctorate of course......
That vote in the Commons last night.
Nothing illustrates the sheer self defeating stupidity of Sinn Fein’s “abstentionist” policy, nor how anachronistic it is a century after it was conceived, than seeing the Brexit fanatics impose their will on Theresa May’s policies (such as they are) and by extension the people Sinn Fein purport to represent in the north of Ireland, than seeing that bill squeeze through by three votes.
The DUP and the Tory backwoodsmen must really love Sinn Fein as not only is that party making the Westminster arithmetic so much more favourable for them in this era of wafer thin majorities and hung parliaments, SF is smoothing the way for the turmoil which is looking increasingly likely along the imaginary line that was drawn right through the Irish nationalist heartlands in Ulster.
Get a sodding grip, Sinn Fein....before it is too late.
Nothing illustrates the sheer self defeating stupidity of Sinn Fein’s “abstentionist” policy, nor how anachronistic it is a century after it was conceived, than seeing the Brexit fanatics impose their will on Theresa May’s policies (such as they are) and by extension the people Sinn Fein purport to represent in the north of Ireland, than seeing that bill squeeze through by three votes.
The DUP and the Tory backwoodsmen must really love Sinn Fein as not only is that party making the Westminster arithmetic so much more favourable for them in this era of wafer thin majorities and hung parliaments, SF is smoothing the way for the turmoil which is looking increasingly likely along the imaginary line that was drawn right through the Irish nationalist heartlands in Ulster.
Get a sodding grip, Sinn Fein....before it is too late.
Sinn Fein being lambasted by political parties in Ireland.
https://www.irishnews.com/news/nort...entionism-hands-votes-to-brexiteers--1384646/
https://www.irishnews.com/news/nort...entionism-hands-votes-to-brexiteers--1384646/
All else fails - blame the provos - classic FF & FG
This time with great justification.
The "Provos", past masters of the blame game themselves, are pointing the finger of blame at Tory Eurosceptics without one hint of irony.
Emlynsqueakyvoice
Player Valuation: £6m
Wow! So, Sinn Fein are elected on an abstentionist ticket and are sticking to that manifesto promise and are being lambasted? You do know that sitting in Parliament would involve swearing allegiance to the British queen first? Sinn Fein would be slaughtered if they even considered that course of action. This Brexit stuff cannot be solved by these Tories because of Ireland. They have not solved the Irish problem for the last 100 years (800?) so why do they think they can solve it now? There will be more attempts to fudge this issue but the only logical solution is for the North to be given a special status, which means remaining in the Customs Union, or reunification of the island and separation from the rest of the UK. A bitter pill, but Sinn Fein will not be voting in Parliament very soon.
Sinn Fein would be voted in even they did not run on an “abstenionist” ticket.
How do we know this?
Because when they dropped their “abstentionist” policy in the Republic they went from strength to strength.
When they dropped their “abstentionist” policy in Belfast City Council they wound up having the Lord Mayorship in that city.
They took their seats in Stormont and if that ever gets going again they are on course to become the biggest party in NI.
The fact they don’t take their seats is well down the list of reasons people vote SF in NI.....dropping the policy woukd have a very limited negative effect on their vote IMO....and any they did lose could probably be made up by people who hitherto refused to vote for them due to abstentionist coming into the fold.
So hiding behind some notion that they are occupying the high moral ground by refusing to take a totally meaningless “oath of allegiance” is self defeating balderdash.
Tony Benn told them what he used to do.....”I crossed my fingers when I had to take it” is what he said when asked at the Feile debate in Belfast years ago, when Gerry Adams was their only MP, Thatcher had a 100+ majority and “abstentionist” was a bit of a lark.
It is far too serious an issue for out and out, uber Republican diehards to be clinging to an outdated dogma when the numbers are so tight and the DUP and the Tory right are running the Brexit show and the majority in NI who voted Remain are being completed sidelined.
The Sinners need to get real and surprise their enemies.....and nowt would wipe the smug smirks off’ve the faces of Rees-Mogg and Arlene Foster more than the sight of seven or eight SF MPs holding their noses, crossing their fingers and marching into Westminster to swing these crucial votes which are going to make northern nationalists even more isolated than they were before.
Or.
Failing that.
If Sinn Fein are too “honourable” to indulge in gesture politics for the sake of the people they are failing to represent in the Brexit fiasco, they might want to resign their seats and refuse to contest the bye-elections so that pro Remain candidates in NI could win the seats and get in there to make a difference.
Emlynsqueakyvoice
Player Valuation: £6m
Fantasy stuff mate. I am well aware of the advantages of having extra numbers in Parliament for a vote, but Sinn Fein have no interest in British affairs. They see themselves as Irish representatives, who act like MPs in helping the community but not attending the British Parliament. If they stopped the abstentionist policy they would lose their raison d'être. I'm afraid that the Remain supporters (me included) will have to find a different way to resolve this. May won't see this through, and she'll certainly get no help from Ireland or the Irish people. What a mess......
Quite.
Seems they have no interest Irish affairs either, as what is happening in the “British” parliament is of vital importance to Ireland and its people, particularly those Irish people in the six counties whom actually elect them to the “British” parliament.
Your kind of blinkered thinking, with its roots firmly planted in the late 18th, early 19th century is set to serve up another hundred years of partition and Brexit is in real danger of unpicking the Good Friday Agreement in the process, whilst the people in a position to stop it in its tracks, Sinn Fein, sit on the sidelines mouthing tough talking platitudes and blaming everyone else for the problem.
And all for the want of crossing a few fingers
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