Current Affairs Irish Border and Brexit

[toffee9]

Ireland actually contributed a lot of vital information to the Allies during the war, vital meteorological information to give the go ahead for the Normandy landings for example.

The Donegal corridor was also vital for the merchant navy traversing the N Atlantic.

It didn't fit the republican agenda of Dev at the time to have this acknowledged and it doesn't fit others agendas of today.

I'd like to believe Ireland did at least do something, but when you see the strength of feeling that remains hidden just under the surface from the Irish to the UK even to this day (as illustrated a few pages ago in relation to this RIC commemoration which I'll elaborate on below), one wonders whether it would have lifted a finger to help the Allies.

I don't blame today's Irish for the decisions that were made by previous generations, just as I don't blame Germans, Japanese or myself for decisions that the UK made. Yet the Irish continue to carry this sense of grievance around about things that happened 100 years ago so very strongly. How can it be that it's too upsetting to hold and attend some tokenistic commemoration, so much so that it's had to be postponed? How can this occur in a supposedly civilised democracy without people challenging this nationalist dogma and ridiculing it? The modern equivalent of the RIC has nothing to do with what happened a hundred years ago. Surely people can rationally see that? Surely even Sinn Fein and nationalists can see this! Yet this thread is proof that so many Irish people aren't even willing to contemplate moving past events from a 100 years ago. They want to hold on to it, no alternative narrative can be entertained.

Indeed there are Sinn Fein politicians that refuse, even now, to attend Remembrance Sunday commemorations at the cenotaph and pay gratitude to the incredible sacrifices made during WW2 (which is even more staggering for those Sinn Fein politicians that represent NI constituencies where so many died). Surely Sinn Fein understands what the alternative outcome was without the British contribution to this effort? Yet they appear to have very selective memories and to neglect to mention their own neutrality towards Hitler and Nazism. So it is that too many people allow Sinn Fein and their nationalist pals to uncritically frame modern day events through a prism of seductive nationalist memories, anger and resentment. I am certain we'll be having the same debate about the same issues in 20 years time...

 

[Armaghtoffee]

I'd like to believe Ireland did at least do something, but when you see the strength of feeling that remains hidden just under the surface from the Irish to the UK even to this day (as illustrated a few pages ago in relation to this RIC commemoration which I'll elaborate on below), one wonders whether it would have lifted a finger to help the Allies.

I don't blame today's Irish for the decisions that were made by previous generations, just as I don't blame Germans, Japanese or myself for decisions that the UK made. Yet the Irish continue to carry this sense of grievance around about things that happened 100 years ago so very strongly. How can it be that it's too upsetting to hold and attend some tokenistic commemoration, so much so that it's had to be postponed? How can this occur in a supposedly civilised democracy without people challenging this nationalist dogma and ridiculing it? The modern equivalent of the RIC has nothing to do with what happened a hundred years ago. Surely people can rationally see that? Surely even Sinn Fein and nationalists can see this! Yet this thread is proof that so many Irish people aren't even willing to contemplate moving past events from a 100 years ago. They want to hold on to it, no alternative narrative can be entertained.

Indeed there are Sinn Fein politicians that refuse, even now, to attend Remembrance Sunday commemorations at the cenotaph and pay gratitude to the incredible sacrifices made during WW2 (which is even more staggering for those Sinn Fein politicians that represent NI constituencies where so many died). Surely Sinn Fein understands what the alternative outcome was without the British contribution to this effort? Yet they appear to have very selective memories and to neglect to mention their own neutrality towards Hitler and Nazism. So it is that too many people allow Sinn Fein and their nationalist pals to uncritically frame modern day events through a prism of seductive nationalist memories, anger and resentment. I am certain we'll be having the same debate about the same issues in 20 years time...

Your posts have nothing at all to do with the thread topic and are just transparent attempts to provoke a reaction

 

[Khalekan]

Stormont deal: Colum Eastwood claims speaker agreement broken

Colum Eastwood says there was cross-party understanding that the SDLP would get Assembly role.

www.bbc.co.uk

I have been an admirer of Mr. Colm Eastwood for a while but this sort of whiny bitchin’ could change my opinion pretty quickly.

 

[Khalekan]

Ha Ha Ha.

That's not a language.

They're making that gibberish up as they go along.

This was the findings when the European Union sent a delegation to consider claims from Ulster-Scots lobby for funding.

Ulster Scots unable to find its voice

A CAMPAIGN for official recognition of the language of the Plantation of Ireland, Ulster Scots, has been dealt a heavy blow, …

www.irishtimes.com

 

[davek]

This was the findings when the European Union sent a delegation to consider claims from Ulster-Scots lobby for funding.

Ulster Scots unable to find its voice

A CAMPAIGN for official recognition of the language of the Plantation of Ireland, Ulster Scots, has been dealt a heavy blow, …

www.irishtimes.com

"A DIY language for Orangemen."

In 'kin bulk here with that. Fantastic story.

And obvioulsy they were scamming for EU cash:

"...the report gives a highly sceptical account of the efforts of Ulster Scots enthusiasts in March this year to convince the delegates that the language is worthy of financial assistance, It states that a demonstration by author and "native speaker", Mr James Fenton, of 18th century Ulster Scots poetry "in a loud voice" had not convinced the team."

Superb that mate.

 

[Khalekan]

"A DIY language for Orangemen."

In 'kin bulk here with that. Fantastic story.

And obvioulsy they were scamming for EU cash:

"...the report gives a highly sceptical account of the efforts of Ulster Scots enthusiasts in March this year to convince the delegates that the language is worthy of financial assistance, It states that a demonstration by author and "native speaker", Mr James Fenton, of 18th century Ulster Scots poetry "in a loud voice" had not convinced the team."

Superb that mate.

lol

 

[lesbattersby]

Stormont deal: Colum Eastwood claims speaker agreement broken

Colum Eastwood says there was cross-party understanding that the SDLP would get Assembly role.

www.bbc.co.uk

I have been an admirer of Mr. Colm Eastwood for a while but this sort of whiny bitchin’ could change my opinion pretty quickly.

Not a fan and never have been, even less of a fan of his father who was a gobshite when I was growing up but that's another story for a different day

 

[Khalekan]

Interesting article from.NI's leading pro Unionist newspaper.

(even if the writer does throw raw meat to his readership at the end)

Ben Lowry: Last night some unionists celebrated a small movement towards Irish unity

Last night at the gates of Stormont loyalists and Brexiteers celebrated an event that has led to the biggest move towards Irish unity since the creation of Northern Ireland in 1921.

www.newsletter.co.uk

 

[davek]

Interesting article from.NI's leading pro Unionist newspaper.

(even if the writer does throw raw meat to his readership at the end)

Ben Lowry: Last night some unionists celebrated a small movement towards Irish unity

Last night at the gates of Stormont loyalists and Brexiteers celebrated an event that has led to the biggest move towards Irish unity since the creation of Northern Ireland in 1921.

www.newsletter.co.uk

I'll refuse to read that article until its written in Ulster-Scots, so I wont.

 

[Khalekan]

I'll refuse to read that article until its written in Ulster-Scots, so I wont.

lol

 

[Charlie Sweet]

Interesting line the Tories are taking now admitting there will be friction at borders (Michael Gove - cant find the link).

It'll be fascinating to see how this plays out in the 6 counties over the coming months given the make-up of the assembly.

Where previously the DUP had their coalition voice alone in a vacuum now they face being drowned out. And if the assembly votes against Brexit measures would the Tories ramp it through regardless?

 

[Khalekan]

At last.

A date.

Friday the 13th......

Will it be unlucky for Big Arlene....

RHI report publication date revealed

The public inquiry report on the Renewable Heat Incentive (RHI) scandal will be published on Friday, March 13.

www.irishnews.com

 

[Charlie Sweet]

At last.

A date.

Friday the 13th......

Will it be unlucky for Big Arlene....

RHI report publication date revealed

The public inquiry report on the Renewable Heat Incentive (RHI) scandal will be published on Friday, March 13.

www.irishnews.com

Can't wait

 

[Creature]

It clearly didn't inspire you Irish to even take on Hitler though, did it?

Haven't read any of the thread so sorry if already pointed out before.

Toffee9 - 'if you know your history' I assume you are on a wind-up for whatever reason.

As pointed out NI was involved in the war and provided many many battalions that fought in both wars. The troops for these battalions came from all Ireland and not just the north. Many thousands of ROI males of fighting age also made their way to England to join the Liverpool, Manchester and London and Scottish battalions that were being formed (as many still do today).
On entry to the war the US army also had many thousands of Irish troops - both ex-pats and 2/3/4 generations.

Percentage of population wise I'd say the ordinary people of Ireland played their part as much as any country regardless of the stance of the politicians.

I expected a chat on the Irish border after brexit issue but like so many threads it appears to have gone off the rails. I won't be back.

 

[Charlie Sweet]

I'd like to believe Ireland did at least do something, but when you see the strength of feeling that remains hidden just under the surface from the Irish to the UK even to this day (as illustrated a few pages ago in relation to this RIC commemoration which I'll elaborate on below), one wonders whether it would have lifted a finger to help the Allies.

I don't blame today's Irish for the decisions that were made by previous generations, just as I don't blame Germans, Japanese or myself for decisions that the UK made. Yet the Irish continue to carry this sense of grievance around about things that happened 100 years ago so very strongly. How can it be that it's too upsetting to hold and attend some tokenistic commemoration, so much so that it's had to be postponed? How can this occur in a supposedly civilised democracy without people challenging this nationalist dogma and ridiculing it? The modern equivalent of the RIC has nothing to do with what happened a hundred years ago. Surely people can rationally see that? Surely even Sinn Fein and nationalists can see this! Yet this thread is proof that so many Irish people aren't even willing to contemplate moving past events from a 100 years ago. They want to hold on to it, no alternative narrative can be entertained.

Indeed there are Sinn Fein politicians that refuse, even now, to attend Remembrance Sunday commemorations at the cenotaph and pay gratitude to the incredible sacrifices made during WW2 (which is even more staggering for those Sinn Fein politicians that represent NI constituencies where so many died). Surely Sinn Fein understands what the alternative outcome was without the British contribution to this effort? Yet they appear to have very selective memories and to neglect to mention their own neutrality towards Hitler and Nazism. So it is that too many people allow Sinn Fein and their nationalist pals to uncritically frame modern day events through a prism of seductive nationalist memories, anger and resentment. I am certain we'll be having the same debate about the same issues in 20 years time...

Annoyed at myself for even replying to such an obvious attempt at a wind up but save to say you're conveniently forgetting the evils perpetrated by the force of the crown on the Irish population before, after and during said world war. But anyway.