Current Affairs Irish Border and Brexit

[Ruairi77]

Why?

well, because no one would want that. If there was a referendum for a united Ireland as part of the UK today the vote in the RoI would be 98% against, 1% undecided.
If in generations to come, and the EU was a mess and the RoI was on her knees and the UK had quit treating our country with disdain while being able to offer economic salvation, i.e. the best case scenario for a united Ireland in the UK, the vote might be 80/20 against.
The minute Connolly, who couldn't stand, was tied to a chair, shot, and killed in Kilmainham gaol any prospect of a united Ireland in the UK died too.

 

[Khalekan]

In the event of reunification, would you not expect the unionist paramilitary to kick off, in much the same way as the Nationalists would if there were a hard border enforced by Brexit?

If they did, do the ROI have the infrastructure and financial ability to cope with it?

There is no equivalence there, Barney.

None whatsoever.

Irish resistance to English rule grew out of anger and resentment over the way they plundered Irish resources and abused Irish people.

For instsnce, the 1798 Rebellion came after a century long period known as The Penal Laws in which native Irish Catholics and planted Ulster Protestants were treated as worse than second class citizens by the English ruling Ascendancy.

The Catholics couldn’t even practice their religion, own land, even own a horse.

The Fenian Uprising of the 1860s was driven by men whom had survived An Gorta Mor (erroneously referred to as the Famine) and watched family and neighbours starve to death as English contractors escorted corn and other crops to England under armed guard.

The Easter Rising was fuelled by the Tory party playing the Orange card and conniving with Ulster Unionists to kill the Home Rule Bill (how little things change in a century, eh )

The IRA came into being after the British government refused to recognise the overwhelming majority voting for Irish nationalist parties in the 1918 election.

And the Provos were born out of 50 years of Unionist mistreatment of native Irish in the six counties after partition, culminating in the police force beating Civil Rights posters off the street and pogroms and murder on Catholic streets in Belfast by armed loyalist mobs led by a paramilitary style police reserve gang in 1969.

Add to that list Cromwell, Mass rocks where Masses were held in secret because the churches were closed, absentee landlordism where English landlords owned the land and the people were evicted on a whim, Black and Tans, Curragh mutinies, mass emigration and two Bloody Sundays and you see why the nationalists “kicked off”.

But to my knowledge there has been no great disadvantage to pro British remnants of the Ascendancy or any other Protestants in the Republic of Ireland since it came into existence in 1949.

Quite the reverse as far as I can see when I visit Donegal.

In short.....Irish nationalists did not wake up one morning and decide they didn’t like the way the English ruled their country and took up arms against them.

It was born out of centuries of oppression.

I would suggest there is no such motivation for Protestants to take up arms against a state which has never done owt to discriminate against them.

 

[Ruairi77]

There is no equivalence there, Barney.

None whatsoever.

Irish resistance to English rule grew out of anger and resentment over the way they plundered Irish resources and abused Irish people.

For instsnce, the 1798 Rebellion came after a century long period known as The Penal Laws in which native Irish Catholics and planted Ulster Protestants were treated as worse than second class citizens by the English ruling Ascendancy.

The Catholics couldn’t even practice their religion, own land, even own a horse.

The Fenian Uprising of the 1860s was driven by men whom had survived An Gorta Mor (erroneously referred to as the Famine) and watched family and neighbours starve to death as English contractors escorted corn and other crops to England under armed guard.

The Easter Rising was fuelled by the Tory party playing the Orange card and conniving with Ulster Unionists to kill the Home Rule Bill (how little things change in a century, eh )

The IRA came into being after the British government refused to recognise the overwhelming majority voting for Irish nationalist parties in the 1918 election.

And the Provos were born out of 50 years of Unionist mistreatment of native Irish in the six counties after partition, culminating in the police force beating Civil Rights posters off the street and pogroms and murder on Catholic streets in Belfast by armed loyalist mobs led by a paramilitary style police reserve gang in 1969.

Add to that list Cromwell, Mass rocks where Masses were held in secret because the churches were closed, absentee landlordism where English landlords owned the land and the people were evicted on a whim, Black and Tans, Curragh mutinies, mass emigration and two Bloody Sundays and you see why the nationalists “kicked off”.

But to my knowledge there has been no great disadvantage to pro British remnants of the Ascendancy or any other Protestants in the Republic of Ireland since it came into existence in 1049.

Quite the reverse as far as I can see when I visit Donegal.

In short.....Irish nationalists did not wake up one morning and decide they didn’t like the way the English ruled their country and took up arms against them.

It was born out of centuries of oppression.

I would suggest there is no such motivation for Protestants to take up arms against a state which has never done owt to discriminate against them.

wow, great synopsis Khal!!

 

[Khalekan]

wow, great synopsis Khal!!

Cheers, Ruari

Sometimes I can’t stop when I get on a roll lol

 

[Disgruntledgoat]

There is no equivalence there, Barney.

None whatsoever.

Irish resistance to English rule grew out of anger and resentment over the way they plundered Irish resources and abused Irish people.

For instsnce, the 1798 Rebellion came after a century long period known as The Penal Laws in which native Irish Catholics and planted Ulster Protestants were treated as worse than second class citizens by the English ruling Ascendancy.

The Catholics couldn’t even practice their religion, own land, even own a horse.

The Fenian Uprising of the 1860s was driven by men whom had survived An Gorta Mor (erroneously referred to as the Famine) and watched family and neighbours starve to death as English contractors escorted corn and other crops to England under armed guard.

The Easter Rising was fuelled by the Tory party playing the Orange card and conniving with Ulster Unionists to kill the Home Rule Bill (how little things change in a century, eh )

The IRA came into being after the British government refused to recognise the overwhelming majority voting for Irish nationalist parties in the 1918 election.

And the Provos were born out of 50 years of Unionist mistreatment of native Irish in the six counties after partition, culminating in the police force beating Civil Rights posters off the street and pogroms and murder on Catholic streets in Belfast by armed loyalist mobs led by a paramilitary style police reserve gang in 1969.

Add to that list Cromwell, Mass rocks where Masses were held in secret because the churches were closed, absentee landlordism where English landlords owned the land and the people were evicted on a whim, Black and Tans, Curragh mutinies, mass emigration and two Bloody Sundays and you see why the nationalists “kicked off”.

But to my knowledge there has been no great disadvantage to pro British remnants of the Ascendancy or any other Protestants in the Republic of Ireland since it came into existence in 1949.

Quite the reverse as far as I can see when I visit Donegal.

In short.....Irish nationalists did not wake up one morning and decide they didn’t like the way the English ruled their country and took up arms against them.

It was born out of centuries of oppression.

I would suggest there is no such motivation for Protestants to take up arms against a state which has never done owt to discriminate against them.

Not that that would stop them. The main reason against it would be, to my mind, they would be pretty decisively outnumbered and outgunned without a sympathetic ear in the security services. So shut up and get on with life or the south side of Glasgow might be filling a load of empty houses.

 

[Emlynsqueakyvoice]

There is no equivalence there, Barney.

None whatsoever.

Irish resistance to English rule grew out of anger and resentment over the way they plundered Irish resources and abused Irish people.

For instsnce, the 1798 Rebellion came after a century long period known as The Penal Laws in which native Irish Catholics and planted Ulster Protestants were treated as worse than second class citizens by the English ruling Ascendancy.

The Catholics couldn’t even practice their religion, own land, even own a horse.

The Fenian Uprising of the 1860s was driven by men whom had survived An Gorta Mor (erroneously referred to as the Famine) and watched family and neighbours starve to death as English contractors escorted corn and other crops to England under armed guard.

The Easter Rising was fuelled by the Tory party playing the Orange card and conniving with Ulster Unionists to kill the Home Rule Bill (how little things change in a century, eh )

The IRA came into being after the British government refused to recognise the overwhelming majority voting for Irish nationalist parties in the 1918 election.

And the Provos were born out of 50 years of Unionist mistreatment of native Irish in the six counties after partition, culminating in the police force beating Civil Rights posters off the street and pogroms and murder on Catholic streets in Belfast by armed loyalist mobs led by a paramilitary style police reserve gang in 1969.

Add to that list Cromwell, Mass rocks where Masses were held in secret because the churches were closed, absentee landlordism where English landlords owned the land and the people were evicted on a whim, Black and Tans, Curragh mutinies, mass emigration and two Bloody Sundays and you see why the nationalists “kicked off”.

But to my knowledge there has been no great disadvantage to pro British remnants of the Ascendancy or any other Protestants in the Republic of Ireland since it came into existence in 1949.

Quite the reverse as far as I can see when I visit Donegal.

In short.....Irish nationalists did not wake up one morning and decide they didn’t like the way the English ruled their country and took up arms against them.

It was born out of centuries of oppression.

I would suggest there is no such motivation for Protestants to take up arms against a state which has never done owt to discriminate against them.

Excellent Khal. I wonder what the bigots on here make of that...

 

[ArtetaMagic]

There is no equivalence there, Barney.

None whatsoever.

Irish resistance to English rule grew out of anger and resentment over the way they plundered Irish resources and abused Irish people.

For instsnce, the 1798 Rebellion came after a century long period known as The Penal Laws in which native Irish Catholics and planted Ulster Protestants were treated as worse than second class citizens by the English ruling Ascendancy.

The Catholics couldn’t even practice their religion, own land, even own a horse.

The Fenian Uprising of the 1860s was driven by men whom had survived An Gorta Mor (erroneously referred to as the Famine) and watched family and neighbours starve to death as English contractors escorted corn and other crops to England under armed guard.

The Easter Rising was fuelled by the Tory party playing the Orange card and conniving with Ulster Unionists to kill the Home Rule Bill (how little things change in a century, eh )

The IRA came into being after the British government refused to recognise the overwhelming majority voting for Irish nationalist parties in the 1918 election.

And the Provos were born out of 50 years of Unionist mistreatment of native Irish in the six counties after partition, culminating in the police force beating Civil Rights posters off the street and pogroms and murder on Catholic streets in Belfast by armed loyalist mobs led by a paramilitary style police reserve gang in 1969.

Add to that list Cromwell, Mass rocks where Masses were held in secret because the churches were closed, absentee landlordism where English landlords owned the land and the people were evicted on a whim, Black and Tans, Curragh mutinies, mass emigration and two Bloody Sundays and you see why the nationalists “kicked off”.

But to my knowledge there has been no great disadvantage to pro British remnants of the Ascendancy or any other Protestants in the Republic of Ireland since it came into existence in 1949.

Quite the reverse as far as I can see when I visit Donegal.

In short.....Irish nationalists did not wake up one morning and decide they didn’t like the way the English ruled their country and took up arms against them.

It was born out of centuries of oppression.

I would suggest there is no such motivation for Protestants to take up arms against a state which has never done owt to discriminate against them.

Very well put, excellent read. And there would be no motivation for Protestants but for loyalist paramilitaries I'm sure there would be a 'kick off' and there would certainly be violence of some sort on the streets.

 

[Khalekan]

Very well put, excellent read. And there would be no motivation for Protestants but for loyalist paramilitaries I'm sure there would be a 'kick off' and there would certainly be violence of some sort on the streets.

Yes, I agree there would be low intensity, sporadic killings by them.

But sure they were doing that even before the Trouble with the Gusty Soence gang.

 

[Bluerover]

There is no equivalence there, Barney.

None whatsoever.

Irish resistance to English rule grew out of anger and resentment over the way they plundered Irish resources and abused Irish people.

For instsnce, the 1798 Rebellion came after a century long period known as The Penal Laws in which native Irish Catholics and planted Ulster Protestants were treated as worse than second class citizens by the English ruling Ascendancy.

The Catholics couldn’t even practice their religion, own land, even own a horse.

The Fenian Uprising of the 1860s was driven by men whom had survived An Gorta Mor (erroneously referred to as the Famine) and watched family and neighbours starve to death as English contractors escorted corn and other crops to England under armed guard.

The Easter Rising was fuelled by the Tory party playing the Orange card and conniving with Ulster Unionists to kill the Home Rule Bill (how little things change in a century, eh )

The IRA came into being after the British government refused to recognise the overwhelming majority voting for Irish nationalist parties in the 1918 election.

And the Provos were born out of 50 years of Unionist mistreatment of native Irish in the six counties after partition, culminating in the police force beating Civil Rights posters off the street and pogroms and murder on Catholic streets in Belfast by armed loyalist mobs led by a paramilitary style police reserve gang in 1969.

Add to that list Cromwell, Mass rocks where Masses were held in secret because the churches were closed, absentee landlordism where English landlords owned the land and the people were evicted on a whim, Black and Tans, Curragh mutinies, mass emigration and two Bloody Sundays and you see why the nationalists “kicked off”.

But to my knowledge there has been no great disadvantage to pro British remnants of the Ascendancy or any other Protestants in the Republic of Ireland since it came into existence in 1949.

Quite the reverse as far as I can see when I visit Donegal.

In short.....Irish nationalists did not wake up one morning and decide they didn’t like the way the English ruled their country and took up arms against them.

It was born out of centuries of oppression.

I would suggest there is no such motivation for Protestants to take up arms against a state which has never done owt to discriminate against them.

Good post.

I would also point out that most of the 1798 leadership were Protestants, particularly Dissenters (Presbyterians especially). All attendees at the first and founding meeting of the United Irishmen in Belfast in 1791 were Protestant. Only two, Wolfe Tone and Thomas Russell were Anglican, the rest were Presbyterian - Sinclair, Henry Joy McCracken, Neilson, Haslett, McIlveen, Simms, McCabe, Tennant, Mc Tier and Pearce.

Lord Edward Fitzgerald was a prominent leader of the Rebellion in Dublin, as were Holt in Wicklow, Harvey and Perry in Wexford, Crosbie in Carlow, and Aylmer in Kildare.

In !801 Robert Emmet led another short-lived rebellion; the Young Irelanders in the 1840s were led by Davis and Mitchel, and Smith-O'Brien led the Fenian Rebellion of 1848.

As a very good nonogenarian Baptist friend of ours from East Belfast remarked to me when I gave her some books on this; "So, the first Fenians were
Prods !! "

Shaw and Parnell led the movement for Home Rule towards the end of the 19th century, and all of the following were Nationalist MPs:
Sir John Gray, Stephen Gwynn, Henry Harrison, Jeremiah Jordan, William McDonald, JG Swift MacNeill, James Maguire, Pearce Charles de Lacy O Mahony, Isaac Nelson, John Pinkerton, Horace Plunkett and Samuel Young.

In the 1916 Rising, Bulmer Hobson, Countess Markiewicz, Erskine Childers, Roger Casement, Thomas Myles, Robert Barton were prominent Republican leaders.

Sam Maguire, after whom the All Ireland Football trophy is named, inducted Michael Collins into the IRB.

I have many very close friends and neighbours in Kilkenny who are Protestant but regard themselves as very much part of the Republic of Ireland.

The Orange Order which was founded in Dublin in 1801 has only one lodge left covering Dublin and Wicklow, with a handful of members. The only southern counties where there are reasonable numbers of active lodges are in Donegal, Leitrim, Cavan and Monaghan. I don't know for certain, but I suspect that their membership are happy to maintain their Orange traditions while remaining citizens of the ROI, even though they are very close to the border.

 

[Charlie Sweet]

There is no equivalence there, Barney.

None whatsoever.

Irish resistance to English rule grew out of anger and resentment over the way they plundered Irish resources and abused Irish people.

For instsnce, the 1798 Rebellion came after a century long period known as The Penal Laws in which native Irish Catholics and planted Ulster Protestants were treated as worse than second class citizens by the English ruling Ascendancy.

The Catholics couldn’t even practice their religion, own land, even own a horse.

The Fenian Uprising of the 1860s was driven by men whom had survived An Gorta Mor (erroneously referred to as the Famine) and watched family and neighbours starve to death as English contractors escorted corn and other crops to England under armed guard.

The Easter Rising was fuelled by the Tory party playing the Orange card and conniving with Ulster Unionists to kill the Home Rule Bill (how little things change in a century, eh )

The IRA came into being after the British government refused to recognise the overwhelming majority voting for Irish nationalist parties in the 1918 election.

And the Provos were born out of 50 years of Unionist mistreatment of native Irish in the six counties after partition, culminating in the police force beating Civil Rights posters off the street and pogroms and murder on Catholic streets in Belfast by armed loyalist mobs led by a paramilitary style police reserve gang in 1969.

Add to that list Cromwell, Mass rocks where Masses were held in secret because the churches were closed, absentee landlordism where English landlords owned the land and the people were evicted on a whim, Black and Tans, Curragh mutinies, mass emigration and two Bloody Sundays and you see why the nationalists “kicked off”.

But to my knowledge there has been no great disadvantage to pro British remnants of the Ascendancy or any other Protestants in the Republic of Ireland since it came into existence in 1949.

Quite the reverse as far as I can see when I visit Donegal.

In short.....Irish nationalists did not wake up one morning and decide they didn’t like the way the English ruled their country and took up arms against them.

It was born out of centuries of oppression.

I would suggest there is no such motivation for Protestants to take up arms against a state which has never done owt to discriminate against them.

Good post.

I would also point out that most of the 1798 leadership were Protestants, particularly Dissenters (Presbyterians especially). All attendees at the first and founding meeting of the United Irishmen in Belfast in 1791 were Protestant. Only two, Wolfe Tone and Thomas Russell were Anglican, the rest were Presbyterian - Sinclair, Henry Joy McCracken, Neilson, Haslett, McIlveen, Simms, McCabe, Tennant, Mc Tier and Pearce.

Lord Edward Fitzgerald was a prominent leader of the Rebellion in Dublin, as were Holt in Wicklow, Harvey and Perry in Wexford, Crosbie in Carlow, and Aylmer in Kildare.

In !801 Robert Emmet led another short-lived rebellion; the Young Irelanders in the 1840s were led by Davis and Mitchel, and Smith-O'Brien led the Fenian Rebellion of 1848.

As a very good nonogenarian Baptist friend of ours from East Belfast remarked to me when I gave her some books on this; "So, the first Fenians were
Prods !! "

Shaw and Parnell led the movement for Home Rule towards the end of the 19th century, and all of the following were Nationalist MPs:
Sir John Gray, Stephen Gwynn, Henry Harrison, Jeremiah Jordan, William McDonald, JG Swift MacNeill, James Maguire, Pearce Charles de Lacy O Mahony, Isaac Nelson, John Pinkerton, Horace Plunkett and Samuel Young.

In the 1916 Rising, Bulmer Hobson, Countess Markiewicz, Erskine Childers, Roger Casement, Thomas Myles, Robert Barton were prominent Republican leaders.

Sam Maguire, after whom the All Ireland Football trophy is named, inducted Michael Collins into the IRB.

I have many very close friends and neighbours in Kilkenny who are Protestant but regard themselves as very much part of the Republic of Ireland.

The Orange Order which was founded in Dublin in 1801 has only one lodge left covering Dublin and Wicklow, with a handful of members. The only southern counties where there are reasonable numbers of active lodges are in Donegal, Leitrim, Cavan and Monaghan. I don't know for certain, but I suspect that their membership are happy to maintain their Orange traditions while remaining citizens of the ROI, even though they are very close to the border.

Great posts.

 

[Barnfred 55]

well, because no one would want that. If there was a referendum for a united Ireland as part of the UK today the vote in the RoI would be 98% against, 1% undecided.
If in generations to come, and the EU was a mess and the RoI was on her knees and the UK had quit treating our country with disdain while being able to offer economic salvation, i.e. the best case scenario for a united Ireland in the UK, the vote might be 80/20 against.
The minute Connolly, who couldn't stand, was tied to a chair, shot, and killed in Kilmainham gaol any prospect of a united Ireland in the UK died too.

We have spent the best part of 800 years trying to throw off the shackles of the union so we hardly going to join it again, ever.

Besides, we haven't even reached the end of the road to independence yet.

Up until Brexit I sort of thought along those lines, Barney.

I always believed Ireland should be one united country...the only question for me was whether or not that should mean an independent Ireland or a devolved (or Home Rule) Ireland within the UK ( or some new dispensation within these islands)

And I still firmly believe that.....but where I once thought the latter was the preferred option I am now 100% in favour of the former option.

Why have I changed my mind so vehemently?

Because of buggers like this.






Sadly I have come to realise that this fellow represents the prevailing and majority cavalier attitude towards Ireland and its people and that he and his ilk have always been around in the Conservative Party and they always will be.

He, nor his fellow travellers in Manchester this week, does not give a toss about the hardships Brexit will inflict on the Irish people, not even those Irish people living in the United Kingdom part of Ireland.

England is fast descending into a political cesspit that will take at least a generation to cleanse.

The Irish would want to be mad to seek to be yoked to us IMO.

Heck, I judt wish the City of Liverpool coukd gain independence from Brexit Britain

I cant believe the Scots turned down the offer of leaving the UK in their referendum. FFS, all they had to do was put a x on a piece of paper...other nations have had to spill a lot of blood to get from under that butcher's apron.

I bet they vote to leave next time though. Cant blame them either, English towns and cities chocca with gammon faced nobheads, and neo-fascist gangs on the cusp of becoming paramilitaries. If I were the Scots, I'd add another 20 foot onto Hadrians Wall.

Exactly.
If we could move the country closer to France and away from the UK most people would be delighted

What can I say. It was a pipedream.

I like you guys and I 100% believe the union would be a stronger place with you on the inside, in much the same way as it is with Scotland as a member. I know you guys were very badly treated back in the day, and thanks Khal for that very detailed and informative post. But I didn't realise the scale of the resentment that you still feel towards us. I must admit I've never witnessed it personally in any of my trips to Ireland visiting family, nor with the many Irish friends and work colleagues I've known over the years who have settled here and even married Brits.

I guess if the anti Brit feeling is so big the best thing to do is just let you take NI back into the fold, and hope you are correct in your assertion that there will be no backlash from the unionists as a return to the troubles would be incredibly sad. Same with the Scots if they want to leave so badly. I think it would be a massive shame if the union broke up, but to be honest I'm starting to become disillusioned with politics in this country and am slowly coming to the conclusion that it's better to keep your head down and just let things happen.

 

[Ruairi77]

What can I say. It was a pipedream.

I like you guys and I 100% believe the union would be a stronger place with you on the inside, in much the same way as it is with Scotland as a member. I know you guys were very badly treated back in the day, and thanks Khal for that very detailed and informative post. But I didn't realise the scale of the resentment that you still feel towards us. I must admit I've never witnessed it personally in any of my trips to Ireland visiting family, nor with the many Irish friends and work colleagues I've known over the years who have settled here and even married Brits.

I guess if the anti Brit feeling is so big the best thing to do is just let you take NI back into the fold, and hope you are correct in your assertion that there will be no backlash from the unionists as a return to the troubles would be incredibly sad. Same with the Scots if they want to leave so badly. I think it would be a massive shame if the union broke up, but to be honest I'm starting to become disillusioned with politics in this country and am slowly coming to the conclusion that it's better to keep your head down and just let things happen.

That's the thing, it's not an anti Brit feeling. At least it wasn't after the GFA and before Brexit.
When the Queen visited Ireland in 2011, she was welcomed with open arms. It was the culmination of over two decades of intensive work to keep the peace and develop relations between the two countries.
But then Brexit happened and it's pretty clear that the patronizingly uninformed attitude towards Ireland was alive and well in the UK.
The roll of the EU in bringing about peace on the island of Ireland can not be underestimated.
It seems to me that reasonable people like you should be pushing for a deal that keeps the UK within the EU but gives you the sovereignty you want. This would keep the UK united and avoid a return to war on your land border.
The rise of right wing hardcore xenophobia has set your country back generations and threatens to drag Ireland with it.

 

[roydo]

That's the thing, it's not an anti Brit feeling. At least it wasn't after the GFA and before Brexit.
When the Queen visited Ireland in 2011, she was welcomed with open arms. It was the culmination of over two decades of intensive work to keep the peace and develop relations between the two countries.
But then Brexit happened and it's pretty clear that the patronizingly uninformed attitude towards Ireland was alive and well in the UK.
The roll of the EU in bringing about peace on the island of Ireland can not be underestimated.
It seems to me that reasonable people like you should be pushing for a deal that keeps the UK within the EU but gives you the sovereignty you want. This would keep the UK united and avoid a return to war on your land border.
The rise of right wing hardcore xenophobia has set your country back generations and threatens to drag Ireland with it.

You beat me to it mate. Kinda what I was going to say, but not as well as your good self. It totally grinds my gears that the utter codswallop that is still being swallowed by those supporting not only Brexit, but a No Deal now, still havnt cottoned on as to why they are being fed.

The border issue is the highlight of their stupidity. It was barely mentioned during the referendum, not one single solution has been accepted as workable, because quite simply, the issue is not solvable.

 

[Armaghtoffee]

What can I say. It was a pipedream.

I like you guys and I 100% believe the union would be a stronger place with you on the inside, in much the same way as it is with Scotland as a member. I know you guys were very badly treated back in the day, and thanks Khal for that very detailed and informative post. But I didn't realise the scale of the resentment that you still feel towards us. I must admit I've never witnessed it personally in any of my trips to Ireland visiting family, nor with the many Irish friends and work colleagues I've known over the years who have settled here and even married Brits.

I guess if the anti Brit feeling is so big the best thing to do is just let you take NI back into the fold, and hope you are correct in your assertion that there will be no backlash from the unionists as a return to the troubles would be incredibly sad. Same with the Scots if they want to leave so badly. I think it would be a massive shame if the union broke up, but to be honest I'm starting to become disillusioned with politics in this country and am slowly coming to the conclusion that it's better to keep your head down and just let things happen.

It isn’t an anti-Brit thing though. Please bear in mind that we are discussing this on a discussion forum of the British team we both support.

The excellent posts above were to provide context of why Ireland is looking to go it alone and will never realistically join the U.K.

 

[Khalekan]

What can I say. It was a pipedream.

I like you guys and I 100% believe the union would be a stronger place with you on the inside, in much the same way as it is with Scotland as a member. I know you guys were very badly treated back in the day, and thanks Khal for that very detailed and informative post. But I didn't realise the scale of the resentment that you still feel towards us. I must admit I've never witnessed it personally in any of my trips to Ireland visiting family, nor with the many Irish friends and work colleagues I've known over the years who have settled here and even married Brits.

I guess if the anti Brit feeling is so big the best thing to do is just let you take NI back into the fold, and hope you are correct in your assertion that there will be no backlash from the unionists as a return to the troubles would be incredibly sad. Same with the Scots if they want to leave so badly. I think it would be a massive shame if the union broke up, but to be honest I'm starting to become disillusioned with politics in this country and am slowly coming to the conclusion that it's better to keep your head down and just let things happen.

I don’t know if you included me in that Barney but as I have told you before, I was born and bred in Garston, just down the Speke Road from you and had my first pint in the Gay Cavalier pub and my second in the Matchworks club

And none of these Irish lads feel any “resentment” towards us.

They are just appalled at the way certain English people are titally indifferent to Ireland’s fate in this reckless purduit of Brexit.

At least they better not have