Current Affairs Irish Border and Brexit

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ToffeeTim said:
Wouldn't bother me one bit. Well passport anyway. Customs would be a no no tbh.

I dont see why Varadkar and May just don't meet each other, use their brains for 5 minutes, realise a common trade and travel area between Britain and Ireland makes sense, then sign a bilateral deal. Job done.
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Border checks / passport ID down the Irish Sea have already been turned down by the unionist parties. I assume you're a unionist? If so I wonder how the general unionist public feel about their party leaders saying No (as is ever always the case!).

On the second point - Theresa May and the Tories have already ruled out a common trade and travel area with the EU. I agree it makes perfect sense but it's off the table unfortunately thanks to the current UK government.
 
Joey66 said:
On s island you can check at the seaports and the airports when we tighten our border controls if the south keep letting people in it's their choice but the north can check their seaports and airports no problem it's the EU trying to throw a spanner in the works trade will continue as per usual a deal will be done!
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Joey that's pretty much exactly the deal the DUP forced the Tories to reject. Ireland and their EU friends were up for signing that deal in the first draft of the December agreement but Arlene Foster stamped her feet!
 
Charlie Sweet said:
Border checks / passport ID down the Irish Sea have already been turned down by the unionist parties. I assume you're a unionist? If so I wonder how the general unionist public feel about their party leaders saying No (as is ever always the case!).

On the second point - Theresa May and the Tories have already ruled out a common trade and travel area with the EU. I agree it makes perfect sense but it's off the table unfortunately thanks to the current UK government.
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Massive difference between EU travel and Irish travel. Irish people can move and live and work freely in Britain, and vice versa, under older legislation. Other EU citizens won't. They could get in through Ireland yes, but would not be entitled to work. That would definitely be a disincentive. I don't think either PM has ruled out a common travel area, the EU are just terrified that would mean no tariffs for them and are trying to dictate.

To be honest I haven't been on a boat in about 15 years so I couldn't be less arsed whether there is a sea border. If I need a passport and they check me at the border so be it. Its a minor inconvenience and not worth getting wound up about. Some unionists get way too wound up on symbolism. I'm a pragmatist myself. I would say yes I'm a unionist but I don't like a fair chunk of unionist politicians. Way too much time spent on meaningless symbolic gestures in this country, but no need to get into all our problems and history, or I'll be here all night...

Customs does however seem totally unnecessary. I don't know any other country with internal customs, it would be very odd. And I'd rather help businesses not waste their time with red tape.
 
Charlie Sweet said:
Border checks / passport ID down the Irish Sea have already been turned down by the unionist parties. I assume you're a unionist? If so I wonder how the general unionist public feel about their party leaders saying No (as is ever always the case!).

On the second point - Theresa May and the Tories have already ruled out a common trade and travel area with the EU. I agree it makes perfect sense but it's off the table unfortunately thanks to the current UK government.
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No my family have an affinity with the South!
 
ToffeeTim said:
Massive difference between EU travel and Irish travel. Irish people can move and live and work freely in Britain, and vice versa, under older legislation. Other EU citizens won't. They could get in through Ireland yes, but would not be entitled to work. That would definitely be a disincentive. I don't think either PM has ruled out a common travel area, the EU are just terrified that would mean no tariffs for them and are trying to dictate.
.
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Great post and appreciated.

I've quoted the first bit only as I wanted to ask - surely the above isn't allowable under EU law (from Ireland's perspective)?
 
Joey66 said:
On s island you can check at the seaports and the airports when we tighten our border controls if the south keep letting people in it's their choice but the north can check their seaports and airports no problem it's the EU trying to throw a spanner in the works trade will continue as per usual a deal will be done!
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Joe, forget the airports and port stuff. I could drive you through multiple border crossings that will require physical infrastructure to secure it if citizens are travelling from an an EU to a non EU state. These are back roads Joe, rural roads that criss-cross Monaghan/Louth and Armagh.

If Westminster wants to control immigration then it must happen there as Dublin port and airport are just a motorway away. 60 minutes drive from Dublin to Crossmaglen.

Rees-Mogg May say that Northern Ireland is just like England, same as Thatcher said Finchley is akin to Fermanagh.

It really isn’t though Joe.
 
ilikecheese said:
Would it be totally unreasonable to have an open border, but anyone travelling from NI to other parts of the UK would have to go through customs/show a passport?

Kinda harsh on the people of NI. Seems somewhat reasonable though.
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I don’t fancy your chances of convincing Irish Unionists of this. Open border of our bit of rock but show your passport for London.

I have been advocating this for years though ;)
 
Joey66 said:
On s island you can check at the seaports and the airports when we tighten our border controls if the south keep letting people in it's their choice but the north can check their seaports and airports no problem it's the EU trying to throw a spanner in the works trade will continue as per usual a deal will be done!
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Arlene's already said NO to that. She's propping up a deeply unpopular Prime Minister and so has got her way.

Special status for NI is of course the simple and most practical solution to this problem, but Arlene has also said NO to that as well and got her way again.

What a mess.
 
Charlie Sweet said:

Great post and appreciated.

I've quoted the first bit only as I wanted to ask - surely the above isn't allowable under EU law (from Ireland's perspective)?
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I'm not a law expert so I dunno the finer details but I don't see a major issue.

All countries can have their own immigration/refugee/asylum rules for non-eu and can take as few or as many as they like and give work permits as they please. The difference being under the EU this is completely optional, but for EU immigration it is mandatory.

I'm fairly sure Ireland would need EU permission to agree the free trade deal with the UK. That's the issue. The EU want customs. Money is 9 times out of 10 the motivating factor in politics but I am cynical. It's in neither countries interest to impose tariffs but it's whether the EU accept this. I have my doubts.
 
Armaghtoffee said:
I don’t fancy your chances of convincing Irish Unionists of this. Open border of our bit of rock but show your passport for London.

I have been advocating this for years though ;)
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I'm not particularly worried by that tbh. There's worse things in life than someone asking me for ID tbh.

As long as there are no customs or trading barriers between NI and the rest of the UK. That would be insane and unacceptable.
 
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