Current Affairs Irish Border and Brexit

[RichardP]

So you think NI is independent though right? Again you are as confused as to what independence means.

That's the part i am debating you over. I was not disputing the GFA. I acknowledge that you did mention that.

Despite you contradicting yourself on just about everything else anyway i will leave that nonsense alone its seems others have called you on that anyway.

Going off in tangents on things that they could do or could change does not change the fact that you are wrong about how NI operates and who controls it.

No, N Ireland is independent in the sense that I mentioned. Of course it is also a part of uk and also has GFA sitting over its affairs. Perhaps free to determine your own future would be a better way of explaining what I meant - and N I reland is free to determine its own future - it would only take a referendum but it hasn't happened. Why?

 

[Cork Evertonian]

No, N Ireland is independent in the sense that I mentioned. Of course it is also a part of uk and also has GFA sitting over its affairs. Perhaps free to determine your own future would be a better way of explaining what I meant - and N I reland is free to determine its own future - it would only take a referendum but it hasn't happened. Why?

Yes it technically and on an official level is part of the uk.But at least half the population of ni, identify themselves as irish.As a citizen of the north of Ireland, you have a right to hold an irish passport.So to say that this brexit fiasco, is none of the south of irelands business, or is not of any concern to the Irish government, is quite frankly insulting, and shows monumental levels of ignorance on your part.

 

[Gwladysstreetlad]

Yeah.....like they would have made a big difference to the overall result

Anyway.....the consensus seems to be that the vote in Wales was swung by English immigrants in that country.

Make no mistake......Brexit wsa and remains all about English nationialism.

And that is a nasty little beast.

The number of the voters are irrelevant, you can't say it's all down to England, the English and English nationalism, portraying it as the English vs everyone else, all the while completely ignoring the fact that the Welsh also voted out. It's rather ironic that you blame people you've chosen to call "immigrants" (you were probably being deliberately ironic in fairness but nonetheless the point stands) for the vote in Wales nothing going the way you wanted. It's the type of deflection I'd expect from somebody like Trump and Republicans in America.

Look, I think we're mostly on the same side here. I'm concerned about the level of nationalism that seems to be creeping into most countries at the moment, with England being no exception. I'm also completely for a united Ireland away from the UK that's free to make whatever decision it's people want to make with regards to the EU.

I just don't think that creating an England Vs everyone else scenario is very helpful, especially when millions of English people are very much on your side.

 

[Armaghtoffee]

That is, with all due respect, your agenda driven mindset getting the better of reality.

Internal UK matters (not talking GFA) that affect only N Ireland or GB are UK business only. That does not mean isolationism or anything of the sort and I think you may have read more into statements than was there. Of course the GFA sits over both countries and I have never tried to deny that.

I was in Belfast shortly after peace broke out, spent time in N Ireland in the '80s and nobody wants to go back to the dark days of the 70's and 80's. Brexit won't take us there and nobody wants a hard border.

I think there is a lot of sabre rattling going on to be honest from a few people who would try to hijack brexit for their own ends - much like wee jimmy crankie is trying in Scotland.

Reading your outdated views on the role of ROI in NI, by any chance were you there as Secretary of State and are still quoting your briefings?

lol

 

[Carl O'Ancelotti]

Reading your outdated views on the role of ROI in NI, by any chance were you there as Secretary of State and are still quoting your briefings?

lol

Ex-forces I'd guess.

 

[Armaghtoffee]

Ex-forces I'd guess.

Could well be.

We didn’t know our place either way.

 

[Mercedes]

Is this THE brexit thread?

 

[roydo]

Is this THE brexit thread?

Nope. This one is quite sane.

 

[RichardP]

Yes it technically and on an official level is part of the uk.But at least half the population of ni, identify themselves as irish.As a citizen of the north of Ireland, you have a right to hold an irish passport.So to say that this brexit fiasco, is none of the south of irelands business, or is not of any concern to the Irish government, is quite frankly insulting, and shows monumental levels of ignorance on your part.

Manners cost nothing and do nothing to further anyone's argument.

We all know and understand the make up of N Ireland but the fact of the matter is that unless, or until, N Ireland holds a referendum and votes to leave UK then it is part of UK. That includes all the benefits and consequences of being a part of the Union. Beating your chest and complaining about Brexit isn't going to achieve a thing. The only things you can do are to either move to Ireland or have a referendum on separation and get a majority vote to leave.

I do understand the concerns and am not unsympathetic but, as a part of UK, N Ireland goes where UK goes. If you don't want to be a part of UK then either take the Irish passport and cancel your UK one and move to Ireland or get a referendum organised.

I am sorry if that sounds harsh but those really are the only options.

As far as Brexit and the trade with Ireland is concerned, (which is what this thread is partially about) I hope and believe that some of the £39 billion initial saving and subsequently the savings from not paying EU membership fees will be used to assist business in N Ireland. Brexit represents a net gain in opportunity in my opinion but change can be frightening.

 

[RichardP]

Reading your outdated views on the role of ROI in NI, by any chance were you there as Secretary of State and are still quoting your briefings?

lol

Nope, I have a far more enjoyable job than that thanks.

 

[SteveSC]

No, N Ireland is independent in the sense that I mentioned. Of course it is also a part of uk and also has GFA sitting over its affairs. Perhaps free to determine your own future would be a better way of explaining what I meant - and N I reland is free to determine its own future - it would only take a referendum but it hasn't happened. Why?

You can repeat this all you want or come up with your own flawed logic but NI is not an independent country. It is part of the United kingdom to your own admission and is still ruled by the British government.

A country that is fully independent, a sovereign country rules itself and votes on its own issues and makes its own taxes and decisions.

You keep mentioning a vote for its own future etc.... You know this sums up your knowledge of NI and its people as in the lack off. Its not so easy. Hence the whole brexit dilemma and the feelings towards leaving the EU for some people in NI and specifically the sentiment on this thread about the border etc....

The irony is you keep saying they are independent because all it would take is a vote to breakaway proves they are not and are still under British control.

Creating your own scenarios or coming up with your own narrative doesn't make it so. Telling people who live there and ignoring their points also shows your ignorance.

 

[Carl O'Ancelotti]

No, N Ireland is independent in the sense that I mentioned. Of course it is also a part of uk and also has GFA sitting over its affairs. Perhaps free to determine your own future would be a better way of explaining what I meant - and N I reland is free to determine its own future - it would only take a referendum but it hasn't happened. Why?

Because things have progressing relatively well during the last 20 years which has included the establishment of a devolved administration, enhanced North-South co-operation in many areas, and improved Anglo-Irish relations, so many people are content for the status quo to continue for the foreseeable future as long as the peace holds. A referendum may have had a destabilising effect and polarised the 2 communities even further.

Now a huge spanner could be thrown into the works as a result of Brexit, which makes the holding of a referendum on Irish unity not only more likely to take place but more likely to be passed. A no deal Brexit may well lead to the break up of the UK as Scotland would also likely demand another vote on independence. So you may well end up with a scenario where you "get our country back" except there will only be half of it left. Turkeys voting for Christmas springs to mind.

 

[Armaghtoffee]

@RichardP this is a summary of your contribution to this thread in your own words;

Ireland could ask its masters in EU to endorse for them.

Manners cost nothing and do nothing to further anyone's argument.

The fact that that makes Brexit negotiations complicated should not be allowed to fudge the matter.

* I really have nothing to add to your informed contribution.

 

[Armaghtoffee]

Nope. This one is quite sane.

Quite a complent indeed given the tinderbox of this thread.

Although us Irish lads must appear like attack dogs fighting to give an opinion.

 

[peteblue]

Quite a complent indeed given the tinderbox of this thread.

Although us Irish lads must appear like attack dogs fighting to give an opinion.

I would have said puppies.....