Current Affairs Irish Border and Brexit

[Carl O'Ancelotti]

Sammy Tache has upped the ante again today insisting that everyone should be "relaxed" about a no-deal Brexit despite all the evidence to the contrary that it would be severely damaging to the NI economy:

'Backstop a 'con trick', says DUP's Wilson

The DUP's Brexit spokesman has said "there's not" any way in which his party can support Mrs May's Brexit deal. Sammy Wilson's comments come after the party’s deputy leader Nigel Dodds insisted his party's opposition to Irish border backstop proposals had not lessened after a meeting with Mrs May yesterday.
"In fact we're more alarmed about what is coming out from the EU and especially the Irish Government," Mr Wilson said when asked if he was reassured by signals from Brussels. Speaking on BBC Radio 4's Today programme, he said the Irish backstop was a "con trick" and added that farmers and businesses should be totally relaxed about a no-deal Brexit.'

What an eejit this man is. He is a prime turkey who can't wait to get stuffed for Christmas.

 

[peteblue]

Not casting any opinions on brexit here but the facts, acknowledged by all sides are very simple.

1- UK doesn't want a hard border with Ireland.
2- Ireland doesn't want a hard border with UK.
3- EU doesn't want a hard border between Ireland and UK.

So, given the above, if we should leave with no deal, my question is very simple. Who is going to pay for, build, install and run a hard border?

I think it is all being used for political manoeuvring and is a bit of a red herring tbh. Switzerland isn't in EU but is surrounded by it without a hard border in sight.

Indeed.....

 

[Harryflashman]

Not casting any opinions on brexit here but the facts, acknowledged by all sides are very simple.

1- UK doesn't want a hard border with Ireland.
2- Ireland doesn't want a hard border with UK.
3- EU doesn't want a hard border between Ireland and UK.

So, given the above, if we should leave with no deal, my question is very simple. Who is going to pay for, build, install and run a hard border?

I think it is all being used for political manoeuvring and is a bit of a red herring tbh. Switzerland isn't in EU but is surrounded by it without a hard border in sight.

Are you absolutely certain there isn’t a hard border between Switzerland and France ? Regardless though aren’t the Swiss in Schengen, I didn’t realise we were joining that with Brexit .

 

[Khalekan]

Not casting any opinions on brexit here but the facts, acknowledged by all sides are very simple.

1- UK doesn't want a hard border with Ireland.
2- Ireland doesn't want a hard border with UK.
3- EU doesn't want a hard border between Ireland and UK.

So, given the above, if we should leave with no deal, my question is very simple. Who is going to pay for, build, install and run a hard border?

I think it is all being used for political manoeuvring and is a bit of a red herring tbh. Switzerland isn't in EU but is surrounded by it without a hard border in sight.

Yes, but imagine a border splitting Switzerland in two, half being an independent country within the EU and the other half being owned by Germany, also in the EU.

And around half the people in the German controlled part wanting sod all to do with The Fatherland and voting for parties which refuse to even take seats in the Bundestag......and just about everyone in both parts of Switzerland having heretofore being extremely happy with the invisible non-border that had developed under the auspices of the EU but was about to become an issue again on account of about 32% of the German population voting to leave the EU and the subject of Switzerland not even featuring in the debate beforehand.

In short, all these comparisons with Switzerland, Norway and even the arrangement between Canada and the USA are totally irrelevant in the context of Ireland,

This kind of fuzzy thinking is not only airy fairy nonsense but is downright dangerous when applied to the rolling hills round South Armagh or in Churchill’s dreary steeple landscape in Fermanagh and Tyrone.

Whilst the Britsh government, or more precisely the ERG and the wannabee opportunist in charge of the Labour Party, persists in hiding behind the fiction that Northern Ireland is “as Britiish” as northern England then no headway will be made on the issue of the British imposed and maintained border in Ireland at all.

 

[RichardP]

Yes, but imagine a border splitting Switzerland in two, half being an independent country within the EU and the other half being owned by Germany, also in the EU.

And around half the people in the German controlled part wanting sod all to do with The Fatherland and voting for parties which refuse to even take seats in the Bundestag......and just about everyone in both parts of Switzerland having heretofore being extremely happy with the invisible non-border that had developed under the auspices of the EU but was about to become an issue again on account of about 32% of the German population voting to leave the EU and the subject of Switzerland not even featuring in the debate beforehand.

In short, all these comparisons with Switzerland, Norway and even the arrangement between Canada and the USA are totally irrelevant in the context of Ireland,

This kind of fuzzy thinking is not only airy fairy nonsense but is downright dangerous when applied to the rolling hills round South Armagh or in Churchill’s dreary steeple landscape in Fermanagh and Tyrone.

Whilst the Britsh government, or more precisely the ERG and the wannabee opportunist in charge of the Labour Party, persists in hiding behind the fiction that Northern Ireland is “as Britiish” as northern England then no headway will be made on the issue of the British imposed and maintained border in Ireland at all.

The UK believes in the right of 'Self Determination.' That is why we fought a war with Argentina over the Falkland Islands and why Gibraltar is still very British.

I do agree that there are some differences over Northern Ireland but the principle of self determination has to be followed through. It is likely, given the different reproductive habits of the 2 sides, that the principle of self determination will, in a few generations, mean a majority vote for a United Ireland. But we have to deal with the world as it is now, not as it might be in 50 years. Right now, the majority of Northern Ireland prefer to remain a part of UK. The fact that that makes Brexit negotiations complicated should not be allowed to fudge the matter.

I ask again, Who will build, pay for, install, maintain and run the border?

 

[roydo]

I ask again, Who will build, pay for, install, maintain and run the border?

An alliance of G4 and Capita most likely. What could possibly go wrong?

 

[Khalekan]

The UK believes in the right of 'Self Determination.' That is why we fought a war with Argentina over the Falkland Islands and why Gibraltar is still very British.

I do agree that there are some differences over Northern Ireland but the principle of self determination has to be followed through. It is likely, given the different reproductive habits of the 2 sides, that the principle of self determination will, in a few generations, mean a majority vote for a United Ireland. But we have to deal with the world as it is now, not as it might be in 50 years. Right now, the majority of Northern Ireland prefer to remain a part of UK. The fact that that makes Brexit negotiations complicated should not be allowed to fudge the matter.

I ask again, Who will build, pay for, install, maintain and run the border?

The English.

After all, it was their great idea to subject the Irish to it in the first place.....and it was their Brexit vote which has made it a hot potatoe again.

The English own it,...let them pay for it.

 

[dublinbluenose]

What an odious cretinous scumbag

 

[Carl O'Ancelotti]

The UK believes in the right of 'Self Determination.'

Pity it didn't believe in it after the 1918 General Election result otherwise this problem wouldn't exist in the first place.

 

[Ruairi77]

Pity it didn't believe in it after the 1918 General Election result otherwise this problem wouldn't exist in the first place.

yea, and pity it doesn't believe in it for it's member countries.
The future of Scotland and N. Ireland was decided by England. Hows that for self determination.
Hell, the English are also still deciding what happens in the RoI.
Self determination...
One group who are sick of Polish accents in Tescos and another who watched Dunkirk and believe that its about time Britania ruled the waves again.
And in answer to the border question, no one will build/pay for the border because, thanks to the GFA, the north will, eventually end up remaining in the single market.
Were it not for Mays desperate attempt to form a government last time, this is what would have happened by now. The English would have gladly thrown the hardcore Unionists under the bus without a second thought. And they will again when the DUP aren't king makers.
Self determination...

 

[RichardP]

The English.

After all, it was their great idea to subject the Irish to it in the first place.....and it was their Brexit vote which has made it a hot potatoe again.

The English own it,...let them pay for it.

Thank you for agreeing that the English (GB actually) have sovereignty over N Ireland.

But we don't want a hard border any more than you do. So who is going to realistically impose, pay for and run the border. The English certainly aren't. The Irish certainly aren't. And the EU will have much bigger issues to deal with once we have left. And, in any event, without UK financial contributions, the EU won't be able to afford it.

So, let me clarify the question. I didn't ask who you would like to pay for a border. I asked you who you think, realistically will pay for, install and run a border.

We won't!

 

[RichardP]

Pity it didn't believe in it after the 1918 General Election result otherwise this problem wouldn't exist in the first place.

How far back in history do you want to go?

Ireland's history, and UK involvement in it, goes back a lot further than 1918.

 

[Ruairi77]

I asked you who you think, realistically will pay for, install and run a border.

We won't!

No body will, there will be no need for a border as both NI and the RoI will be in the same market.

 

[Armaghtoffee]

How far back in history do you want to go?

Ireland's history, and UK involvement in it, goes back a lot further than 1918.

It was a valid reply to your statement that England believes in the right to self-determination. Perhaps you would like to bookend the statement with ‘whenever it politically suits them’.

There won’t be a border in Ireland for the sole reason that our unique status will see all of the Island remain in the customs union.

 

[RichardP]

It was a valid reply to your statement that England believes in the right to self-determination. Perhaps you would like to bookend the statement with ‘whenever it politically suits them’.

There won’t be a border in Ireland for the sole reason that our unique status will see all of the Island remain in the customs union.

I am not sure that your second para will apply if/when we leave with no deal.

Your first para is inaccurate. If you read my earlier posts you will see that I have already suggested that in a couple of generations there may well be a majority in the North wishing to unite with the South. If there is a referendum and that is the outcome then it must be respected and acted on - just as the brexit referendum must be respected and acted upon now.