Current Affairs Irish Border and Brexit

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Neiler said:
This is another popular misconception about the IRA mate. The IRA are not sectarian if anything they are very left socialist. Many of the IRA founding members and most prominent members were Protestant. The IRA actively canvassed the Protestant areas of NI for members.

The IRA are political, they are not sectarian, of course much of the discrimination by Unionist and British forces fell on the Catholic community so there is a natural alliance there and it produced breeding grounds in terms of nationalism.

But by nature the IRA would and have welcomed any nationalist regardless of religion.
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British forces were deployed to protect catholic communities and were welcomed when they arrived, unless my memory is playing tricks....
 
Mark O'Silver said:
Which by those figures means that 42% of deaths were the responsibilty of loyalist paramilitaries. Strange that you didn't mention that.

In fact, going by those figures the responsibilty for all deaths was pretty much a 50-50 split down both sides of the conflict. So please don't portray it being as one-sided as it is usually portrayed in the British media.

As is often said, the first casualty of war is truth. And because of that you did not get the full picture of what actually happened here during the Troubles on your side of the Irish Sea, particularly the part played by the forces of the State.
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May I ask how old you are ? Were you actually alive during the 60’s/70’s ? We may well have gotten a one sided view, but it didn’t feel like that at the time.....
 
peteblue said:
May I ask how old you are ? Were you actually alive during the 60’s/70’s ? We may well have gotten a one sided view, but it didn’t feel like that at the time.....
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Yes I was alive during the 60s and 70s and grew up during the Troubles. It may not have felt like that at the time because a lot of this stuff has only come to light post-conflict, e.g. the extent of collusion between State forces and loyalist paramilitaries. The news at time was managed in the UK media to reflect one side as good and the other side as bad, as is the case in most conflict situations where your own nation is a participant.
 
peteblue said:
British forces were deployed to protect catholic communities and were welcomed when they arrived, unless my memory is playing tricks....
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I think you are confusing the welcoming of British troops with a Euphoria of bringing down the Stormont government mate. That Government was the kernel of the purposeful disenfranchisement of Catholic civil rights.

Who were the Catholic community in need of protection. Given what happened under occupation it got a whole lot worse the mission wasn't a success, the violence escalated and particularly Catholic areas were targeted and further discriminated against, torture, internship, curfews, shootings of civilians, jailing without trial, beating confessions, human right violations, concocting evidence to jail innocent people.

There is absolutely no side that comes out of this righter then the other with horrible atrocities committed on each side, it was mess from top to bottom and an example of how discrimination, prejudice, nationalism, colonialism or a military approach to just following orders can bring the worst out in humans.
 
Neiler said:
I think you are confusing the welcoming of British troops with a Euphoria of bringing down the Stormont government mate. That Government was the kernel of the purposeful disenfranchisement of Catholic civil rights.

Who were the Catholic community in need of protection. Given what happened under occupation it got a whole lot worse the mission wasn't a success, the violence escalated and particularly Catholic areas were targeted and further discriminated against, torture, internship, curfews, shootings of civilians, jailing without trial, beating confessions, human right violations, concocting evidence to jail innocent people.

There is absolutely no side that comes out of this righter then the other with horrible atrocities committed on each side, it was mess from top to bottom and an example of how discrimination, prejudice, nationalism, colonialism or a military approach to just following orders can bring the worst out in humans.
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Excellent post......
 
peteblue said:
Which basically says what I have been saying all along, that the EU are cynically using this to undermine Brexit.......
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...and they've been allowed to insert that backstop because the crazies in the Tory Party who just want WTO terms and a hard brexit wanted a Gordiam Knot to be made of the Irish border so they could throw their hands up in the air and walk off.
 
It's been said before again and again but if the UK default to a No-Deal and go to WTO terms then the UK will have to look at custom checks on the Irish Border. @peteblue and @Joey66 will deny it but it is absolutely clear in the non-discrimination rules rules of the WTO. Under “most-favoured-nation” the UK would have to treat its trading partners equally.

For example, suppose the UK and EU trade on WTO terms after Brexit. Suppose steak & kidney pies from Angola or cars from Taiwan arriving in the UK at an English port have to go through controls, but Irish pies or German cars crossing the border into Northern Ireland (and therefore the UK) do not. Then the Angolans or the Taiwanese could complain that its goods were discriminated against. They weren’t given equal treatment with Irish and German companies when they entered the UK. In that instance the UK would be stuck between a rock and a hard place. But hey ho....
 
Khalekan said:
It has been a bad few days for Sinn Fein and it’s lightweight leaders, Ms MacDonald and Ms O’Neill.

The party’s vote more than halved in the Irish Presidential Election.....whilst the DUP are like the cat that got the cream after extorting another billion quid from the Tories in the Budget, leaving SF totally sidelined.



https://www.irishtimes.com/news/pol...on-will-not-be-pretty-for-sinn-féin-1.3679000
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I wouldn't read anything into the presidential election, it was always going to be a coronation for Michael D. Young people also didn't vote at all in this election which is a demographic stronghold for SF in recent elections.
 
It was an all round tactical budget to get support from her ERG group and backbenchers and some remainers and of course the DUP to push a deal through on Brexit - that's politics a dirty game......
 
peteblue said:
British forces were deployed to protect catholic communities and were welcomed when they arrived, unless my memory is playing tricks....
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No Pete, your memory is spot on.

And it is a damning indictment of British policy in Ulster post partition that as recently as 1969 we had to send troops on to the streets of the United Kingdom because our fellow citizens were being subjected to pogroms from hate filled mobs, led by a locally recruited, exclusively Protestant, highly armed, undisciplined militia acting under the auspices of the contemporaneous police force and with the full authority of the anti Catholic regime left to rule the roost unchecked for almost fifty years.
 
Joey66 said:
It was an all round tactical budget to get support from her ERG group and backbenchers and some remainers and of course the DUP to push a deal through on Brexit - that's politics a dirty game......
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Indeed, Joe.

The very dirtiest of dirty games.

And the fact that you, me and millions like us just shrug our shoulders and accept this disgusting situation is the reason politicians get away with serving nowt more than their own narrow self interest and preservation and to heck with acting in the best interests of our country.
 
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