Current Affairs Irish Border and Brexit

[Neiler]

I agree, and the NI vote did just that. But as SF threw their toys out of the devolved pram and refuse to take a seat at Westminster there is really only the DUP voice being heard, right or wrong.....

I think every party is as guilty as the other on power sharing. It’s an absolute disgrace and people are suffering because of it.

Well the vote wasn’t polarized on ethnic lines, the overwhelming majority voted to stay including the majority of unionists. The DUP are acting against the remit of the will of the people of Northern Ireland nationalist and unionist.

I think you have to understand the history of the philosphey of republicism on SF absenteeism. In Republicism the northern Irish state doesn’t exist, nor do they recognize the other 28 counties of the republic. They recognize a 32 county republic as was established in 1916. The UK is a foreign invader. From that point of view why would you legitimize the political system of what you feel is an occupying power or a foreign invader.

I suppose if you embrace and accept the history and culture of unionists you have to embrace the same of Republicans, that wasn’t historically the case as we know.

Many different republican “organizations” have degrees of philosophy around the issues.

 

[Carl O'Ancelotti]

I think every party is as guilty as the other on power sharing. It’s an absolute disgrace and people are suffering because of it.

Well the vote wasn’t polarized on ethnic lines, the overwhelming majority voted to stay including the majority of unionists. The DUP are acting against the remit of the will of the people of Northern Ireland nationalist and unionist.

I think you have to understand the history of the philosphey of republicism on SF absenteeism. In Republicism the northern Irish state doesn’t exist, nor do they recognize the other 28 counties of the republic. They recognize a 32 county republic as was established in 1916. The UK is a foreign invader. From that point of view why would you legitimize the political system of what you feel is an occupying power or a foreign invader.

I suppose if you embrace and accept the history and culture of unionists you have to embrace the same of Republicans, that wasn’t historically the case as we know.

Many different republican “organizations” have degrees of philosophy around the issues.

I think your counting may need addressing. Or maybe Kilburn and Cricklewood have now been annexed ?

 

[Neiler]

I think your counting may need addressing. Or maybe Kilburn and Cricklewood have now been annexed ?

Ha yeah soz 26! I think sometimes in GAA, London and New York yet to be annexed.

 

[Khalekan]

The DUP are irrelvent to both the Irish government and the EU they are only relevant to the UK goverment as they are making up a coalition, my point really is how undemocratic that is given the will of the people of Northern Ireland on just the EU issue. Really they are May’s problem politically, there is only so long she can keep the plates spinning though and ultimately the DUP and supporting their position is the low hanging fruit when it comes to the key issues for the majority of UK citizens. If I was from the UK I’d be annoyed with politicians pandering to the DUP, it’s cirtically effecting every other aspect of Brexit and ultimately the entire citizenship of the UKs welfare.

I don’t think the EU issue is as polarized as historical demarcation I think it’s perfectly possible and highly likely to be a unionist and want to be in the EU as well. I’m sure there are many given the vote on the issue in NI.

And they are only relevant insofar as they are useful idiots for the Tory nutters determined to see us crashing out the EU without a crash helmet.

The sight of wee Sammy Tache jumping up and down like a peforming dog, in front of a hall full of Littke Englanders, on a stage in Bournemouth last night was pure looney tunes

 

[Khalekan]

I agree, and the NI vote did just that. But as SF threw their toys out of the devolved pram and refuse to take a seat at Westminster there is really only the DUP voice being heard, right or wrong.....

Indeed, pete.

That is the most sickening thing about this.

NI voted 56% Remain and the latest opinion poll puts that figure at 63%.......but thanks to Sinn Fein that majority is not being represented where it matters most and where it can be most effective.

In the voting lobbies at Westminster.

And their gamble in bringing diwn the NI Assembly has backfired spectacularly.

The DUP is currently under extreme scrutiny in Belfast due to their incompetence and downright corruption in the RHI inquiry.

They should also be on the defensive at Stormont right now.

Instead they have a free pass and the stage all to themselves.

SF used to be such a slick political machine, savvy and ahead of the curve on most things.

Now they just seem irrelevant.

 

[Emlynsqueakyvoice]

You may remember that, against my better judgement, I posted my thoughts and you just dismissed them, as you have just done again. So I asked you for your views on a solution, answer came there none, just words like ‘laughable’ and other assorted incorrect innuendo. You now say there is no issue, which I’m pretty sure I said as well. I don’t wish to take control of immigration on the island of Ireland, and I said so, and you dismissed that as well. So really there is nothing to add. But at least you are now being reasonably civil, though how long it lasts I wouldn’t know.......

I will pick up on one particular statement there. When you said that you don’t want to take control of immigration on the island of Ireland, why are you differentiating between the mainland and the six counties? If you are implicitly accepting that there is a different dynamic in Ireland to Great Britain, why are you proposing non existent technology for the border? Why not do what May has already signed up to last year and have a special status in NI?
I am always civil until I get messed around. If you debate and answer my latest post then I won’t be in a position to accuse you of childish evasion and deflection, and I, in these new circumstances, could even go back through some of my posts and seek belated answers. What do you think Pete?

 

[peteblue]

I will pick up on one particular statement there. When you said that you don’t want to take control of immigration on the island of Ireland, why are you differentiating between the mainland and the six counties? If you are implicitly accepting that there is a different dynamic in Ireland to Great Britain, why are you proposing non existent technology for the border? Why not do what May has already signed up to last year and have a special status in NI?
I am always civil until I get messed around. If you debate and answer my latest post then I won’t be in a position to accuse you of childish evasion and deflection, and I, in these new circumstances, could even go back through some of my posts and seek belated answers. What do you think Pete?

There is a difference because of the GFA and no one wants to undermine it. Also the numbers of people who may or may not take advantage of an open border will be minuscule and that’s why it’s acceptable. The reason why the special status is not acceptable is because that would create a border between one part of the U.K. and another. I’ve mentioned this before, but if a similar proposal was put for the EU and the ROI to do similar it would be thrown out. Like them or not, the DUP believe they are fighting for their very existence and that they are being railroaded by the EU into a United Ireland.....

 

[Emlynsqueakyvoice]

There is a difference because of the GFA and no one wants to undermine it. Also the numbers of people who may or may not take advantage of an open border will be minuscule and that’s why it’s acceptable. The reason why the special status is not acceptable is because that would create a border between one part of the U.K. and another. I’ve mentioned this before, but if a similar proposal was put for the EU and the ROI to do similar it would be thrown out. Like them or not, the DUP believe they are fighting for their very existence and that they are being railroaded by the EU into a United Ireland.....

So, unlike the DUP you want NI to be treated differently to the rest of the U.K.? Because that's what you're saying. This illustrates the whole point that you cannot have open borders that comply with the GFA, and hard borders to protect the UK from those pesky foreigners. You cannot say that you don't want foreigners in Esher, but Enniskillen can fend for itself. Or is that exactly what you're saying? That's not Brexit chum. There are also already checks carried out on livestock entering Ireland at Belfast, so it seems a little rich to object to further checks. While we're here, what would May have done if this deal wasn't dependent on the DUP's votes? Would she have cared so much about the union?

 

[peteblue]

So, unlike the DUP you want NI to be treated differently to the rest of the U.K.? Because that's what you're saying. This illustrates the whole point that you cannot have open borders that comply with the GFA, and hard borders to protect the UK from those pesky foreigners. You cannot say that you don't want foreigners in Esher, but Enniskillen can fend for itself. Or is that exactly what you're saying? That's not Brexit chum. There are also already checks carried out on livestock entering Ireland at Belfast, so it seems a little rich to object to further checks. While we're here, what would May have done if this deal wasn't dependent on the DUP's votes? Would she have cared so much about the union?

I honestly don’t know how May would have treated NI if she were not dependent on the DUP. My own view is that while NI is part of the U.K. then they are part of the U.K. Livestock checks are sensible because the ecological system in NI is different to that of the rest of the U.K. and is physically joined to the ROI, checking of livestock from all of the Eu is already done coming into the U.K. and I believe coming into the ROI......

 

[Emlynsqueakyvoice]

I honestly don’t know how May would have treated NI if she were not dependent on the DUP. My own view is that while NI is part of the U.K. then they are part of the U.K. Livestock checks are sensible because the ecological system in NI is different to that of the rest of the U.K. and is physically joined to the ROI, checking of livestock from all of the Eu is already done coming into the U.K. and I believe coming into the ROI......

But if NI is part of the UK ‘then they are part of the UK’, why are you happy for them to absorb immigration but not any other part of the UK? How is that Brexit? By giving NI a special status regarding immigration you are tacitly saying that you can treat it differently to the UK at any time. Makes no sense at all. Do you not see that? Same with the livestock argument.

 

[Khalekan]

There is a difference because of the GFA and no one wants to undermine it. Also the numbers of people who may or may not take advantage of an open border will be minuscule and that’s why it’s acceptable. The reason why the special status is not acceptable is because that would create a border between one part of the U.K. and another. I’ve mentioned this before, but if a similar proposal was put for the EU and the ROI to do similar it would be thrown out. Like them or not, the DUP believe they are fighting for their very existence and that they are being railroaded by the EU into a United Ireland.....

The DUP does.

That party has been implacably opposed to the GFA from the getgo, actively campaigned against it in the Referendum at the time and is seizing upon Brexit as a way to undermine it.

Both Foster and one of her senior lieutenants, Jeffrey Donaldson MP, left Trimble’s branch of Unionism to join the DUP specifically because they abhorred the GFA.

The DUP see Brexit and the diminution of the GFA as the mother of all Twofers.

 

[peteblue]

But if NI is part of the UK ‘then they are part of the UK’, why are you happy for them to absorb immigration but not any other part of the UK? How is that Brexit? By giving NI a special status regarding immigration you are tacitly saying that you can treat it differently to the UK at any time. Makes no sense at all. Do you not see that? Same with the livestock argument.

Of course it does. Because it maintains the GFA, no other part of the U.K. has a GFA or border with the EU. The livestock argument, isn’t even an argument, it’s differing ecological systems, a fox or a badger can move across the English /Welsh border carrying a disease. They can do that between NI/ROI, but cannot do it from mainland U.K. to NI, hence the checks.

 

[Emlynsqueakyvoice]

Of course it does. Because it maintains the GFA, no other part of the U.K. has a GFA or border with the EU. The livestock argument, isn’t even an argument, it’s differing ecological systems, a fox or a badger can move across the English /Welsh border carrying a disease. They can do that between NI/ROI, but cannot do it from mainland U.K. to NI, hence the checks.

Hang on, let’s deal with the first point of my last post. Immigration into the north of Ireland will be tolerated, allowed, ignored? That isn’t Brexit is it? Did 17.4 million people vote for 75% immigration clampdown on EEA nationals in the UK? I’ll ask you about the rest of your last post in a moment

 

[summerisle]

 

[davids]

Time for the Sinn Fein MP's to take their seats,that would be fun.