Hypothetical Martinez question

[Lob]

The only thing i can say for certain when it comes to Martinez is that no matter where we were at, it would all be Phenomenal as far as he is concerned.

 

[TraffordBlue]

I fully agree his mantra didn't work when the chips were down, but I feel we lacked conviction and believe when we had a run of poor results. I think weve said for a long time we lack leaders, and don't have characters in the dressing room, it just seems to me we resorted to type, and then the manager becomes the scapegoat. Look at Koemans 1st season after the first 5 games, it when south very fast after the Norwich cup game, we're a defeat or two from collapsing. Koeman to his credit switched it up, but we resorted to a style lacking in his pressing vision.

Some good points made but this in particular has got me thinking...

Jagielka often gets criticism for that, and although he obviously has the respect of the players and is a character, he hasn't really got enough nastiness about him to be a true leader in all circumstances.

No one ever seemed to mention this when he was there under Moyes. And that is obviously because we had a lot of other 'leaders' which meant that he didn't need to be the one to try and do it. Under Moyes we had several players who had leadership attributes that Jagielka lacks:

Carsley, Gravesen, Martyn, Howard, Hibbert, Neville, Cahill.

The problem Jagielka has is that hardly any of his team-mates can step up. Only Rooney and McCarthy have any nastiness about them in this side, but this has to be Jags' last season as Captain.

 

[Abraders]

It's arguably Martinez's fault that Lukaku is gone. Just saying like.

It was also his fault he joined in the first place

 

[The binman chronicles]

He got time and he took us backwards. Let's look to a manager that improves us over the course of 3 seasons.

Allardyce is obviously a stop gap so no point in getting worked up over him.

 

[Toffeelover]

No.

 

[CairnsToffee]

Voted No as we would be in League 1, the guy was an absolute balloon!

 

[Seathestars]

I don't think so, I think he'd lost the dressing room and once that happens there's no going back.

 

[Adam-GOTTV]

I've mentioned this before but @Jim Keoghan told me that when he spoke to Martinez for his book (a few months after he'd been sacked) Martinez said he thought that, given another transfer window, he'd have got it right. He kept pointing out that we got to two semi-finals in his last season. I mean, of course he'd say that, but the first season of his was one of the best I've ever had as a blue so who knows.

Thing is, it's annoying with Berto' because I liked him so much and if he'd have just not been such a [Poor language removed] ideologue he could have addressed some of the issues and probably got himself about 15 more points a season. Mind boggles.

 

[MikeH72]

I've mentioned this before but @Jim Keoghan told me that when he spoke to Martinez for his book (a few months after he'd been sacked) Martinez said he thought that, given another transfer window, he'd have got it right. He kept pointing out that we got to two semi-finals in his last season. I mean, of course he'd say that, but the first season of his was one of the best I've ever had as a blue so who knows.

Thing is, it's annoying with Berto' because I liked him so much and if he'd have just not been such a [Poor language removed] ideologue he could have addressed some of the issues and probably got himself about 15 more points a season. Mind boggles.

He had a good squad at one time but things like his refusal to drop the worst goalkeeper in the country because he had convinced himself he was a fan favourite for some reason, was one of many flaws he just wouldn't acknowledge out of either pure stubbornness or cluelessness. He dug his own grave in the end.

 

[LiamG]

Of course we would be.

Martinez perhaps wasn't as good as Moyes in the transfer market but he certainly would have been better than this shower.

He was also a very good coach who would have done a better job bringing through the kids.

People make the argument that we were still bottom half. While that may be true the big difference between then and now is that then we were under performing especially at home whereas now our league performance flatters us. Plus since he has left we have barely won a cup game. Under Martinez our cup record was good and our seasons lasted beyond early January.

I'm honestly shocked people still have such strong negative feelings towards him. He is the only manager since Kendall that actually gave me hope we could one day compete at the top and unfortunately I suspect that hope when unfulfilled lead to undeserved hate.

 

[Thomasc]

He had to go because

We kept getting twatted every week and had the worst home record at the club since before the days of Dixie.

Happy to help

 

[Stuartisitc1878]

We kept getting twatted every week and had the worst home record at the club since before the days of Dixie.

Happy to help

but top 4 away form if i remember rightly.

 

[MACCA75]

This idea that we were unlucky to finish 5th with so many points (in his first season) is nonsense too.

We were 4th with a handful of games to go, and the players completely bottled it. We had no chance of actually finishing 4th.

 

[Thomasc]

but top 4 away form if i remember rightly.

oh god....I can't even be arsed with this.

He's gone, lets all move on.

 

[Thomasc]

Who would win a hypothetical fist fight between the saint (Simon Templer) and James Bond (Roger Moore)?